UPDATE: Croydon muslim fired from Sutton Vodafone shop for having a beard

UPDATE: Muslim fired for having a beard

Shahid Saleem, 21, from Croydon, has a beard for religious reasons

Vodafone in Sutton High Street

First published in Sutton Your Local Guardian: Photograph of the Author Exclusive by , Chief reporter covering Wandsworth

A Muslim was sacked on the first day of a new job at a phone shop because of his beard.

Shahid Saleem, 21, from Croydon, has a beard for religious reasons and is now seeking legal advice after the discrimination he faced at Vodafone in Sutton High Street.

Mr Saleem turned up at the store on September 9, 2011 after being placed there by the recruitment agency, Adecco.

He was taken to a room at the back of the store by the manager and told he could not work there because he had a beard.

Mr Saleem asked to see the dress code to see whether Vodafone had an official policy which requires a worker to be clean shaven.

However, his request was refused and he claimed he was escorted to the door and told to speak to his job agency.

Mr Saleem said: "Throughout the whole time [the store manager] was talking to me, he spoke to me condescendingly in public in front of a Vodafone employee, which completely demoralised and upset me as well as causing me distress.

"He did not mention anything at all about my clothes; he only stated that he did not want me working with him if I had a beard."

"What [the store manager] did was blatant discrimination, and discrimination is this country is illegal, especially in regards to the work place."

Mr Saleem is still affected by the experience; he said he felt disrespected and that no-one in his life had treated him in this way.

After inquiring the company dress code, the store manager contacted Adecco on the same day to confirm that Mr Saleem could return without removing his beard.

However, Mr Saleem, who prays five times a day, said he would not feel comfortable returning to the store which had already discriminated against him once.

Vodafone investigated Mr Saleem’s complaint and sent him an explanation and apology.

They said the store manager felt Mr Saleem’s appearance was "rather scruffy and not business appropriate" but admitted he focused on discussing Mr Saleem’s beard rather than the rest of his appearance.

The store manager was subsequently enrolled on a training course to help him to understand more about diversity and about Vodafone’s approaches and policies.

Mr Saleem’s MP, Malcolm Wicks said: "This is a shocking case of discrimination which surprised me in this day and age.

"I wrote to Vodafone about this and I’m pleased about the action they have taken.

"This man was shocked and upset - understandably so and I am pleased he stood up for himself."

A spokeswoman for Vodafone said: "We did not fire Mr Saleem as stated in your headline.

"Mr Saleem did not accept the position offered in our retail store in September. We also made it clear to Mr Saleem that we would very much like him to join us at a later date if a position arises that suits him.

"We have absolutely no mention of beards in our dress code. In retail stores, we ask that employees wear branded clothing and present a neat and professional appearance.

"We do accept that the manager of the Sutton store focused not just on general standards of neatness but also on the neatness of Mr Saleem’s beard and this could have been misunderstood.

"The manager decided that Mr Saleem was a suitable candidate to work in our store and we asked him return to the store the same day to start work. Unfortunately, Mr Saleem felt unable to do so.

"We have apologised to Mr Saleem as we felt that the situation could have been better handled."

Comments (42)

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10:38am Thu 29 Mar 12

Mr Flange of Wallington says...

Why does this article start off mentioning that Mr Saleem is a muslim?

He was asked to leave because of his appearance, not his religion.

If there was any discrimintation, it was beardist, not racist. Bearded people have rights too!
Why does this article start off mentioning that Mr Saleem is a muslim? He was asked to leave because of his appearance, not his religion. If there was any discrimintation, it was beardist, not racist. Bearded people have rights too! Mr Flange of Wallington
  • Score: 2

11:32am Thu 29 Mar 12

edstar says...

Mr Flange of Wallington wrote:
Why does this article start off mentioning that Mr Saleem is a muslim?

He was asked to leave because of his appearance, not his religion.

If there was any discrimintation, it was beardist, not racist. Bearded people have rights too!
"However, Mr Saleem, who prays five times a day"

What has this got to do with the story? I suspect that this is the Guardian just reiterating that this guy is a Muslim.
[quote][p][bold]Mr Flange of Wallington[/bold] wrote: Why does this article start off mentioning that Mr Saleem is a muslim? He was asked to leave because of his appearance, not his religion. If there was any discrimintation, it was beardist, not racist. Bearded people have rights too![/p][/quote]"However, Mr Saleem, who prays five times a day" What has this got to do with the story? I suspect that this is the Guardian just reiterating that this guy is a Muslim. edstar
  • Score: 4

12:45pm Thu 29 Mar 12

trasie says...

Looking at the maturity of the beard, did he not have it at the interview? Also, the company that had the job did they not have certain restriction criteria information. I think he should take them both to court for humiliation.
Looking at the maturity of the beard, did he not have it at the interview? Also, the company that had the job did they not have certain restriction criteria information. I think he should take them both to court for humiliation. trasie
  • Score: 4

1:53pm Thu 29 Mar 12

GR-London says...

This is not new.

Many years ago I was informed by an employer that I could not grow a beard because their dress code was "clean shaven, smart appearance and no tattoos."

The employer is paying you, not the other way around and if they want to present their company's image in a particular way, within reason that is up to them.

Another thing - that is going to be a big deduction of pay, to disappear to pray five times a day!
This is not new. Many years ago I was informed by an employer that I could not grow a beard because their dress code was "clean shaven, smart appearance and no tattoos." The employer is paying you, not the other way around and if they want to present their company's image in a particular way, within reason that is up to them. Another thing - that is going to be a big deduction of pay, to disappear to pray five times a day! GR-London
  • Score: -4

1:57pm Thu 29 Mar 12

edstar says...

GR-London wrote:
This is not new.

Many years ago I was informed by an employer that I could not grow a beard because their dress code was "clean shaven, smart appearance and no tattoos."

The employer is paying you, not the other way around and if they want to present their company's image in a particular way, within reason that is up to them.

Another thing - that is going to be a big deduction of pay, to disappear to pray five times a day!
Was he fired for praying 5 time a day?

Did the dress policy state no beards?

A spokeswoman for Vodafone said: "We did indeed apologise to Mr Saleem as we felt that the situation could have been better handled. "We have absolutely no mention of beards in our dress code
[quote][p][bold]GR-London[/bold] wrote: This is not new. Many years ago I was informed by an employer that I could not grow a beard because their dress code was "clean shaven, smart appearance and no tattoos." The employer is paying you, not the other way around and if they want to present their company's image in a particular way, within reason that is up to them. Another thing - that is going to be a big deduction of pay, to disappear to pray five times a day![/p][/quote]Was he fired for praying 5 time a day? Did the dress policy state no beards? A spokeswoman for Vodafone said: "We did indeed apologise to Mr Saleem as we felt that the situation could have been better handled. "We have absolutely no mention of beards in our dress code edstar
  • Score: 4

2:34pm Thu 29 Mar 12

smurf4568 says...

Safeway used to have a policy that you coulnd't grow a beard while working for them, but if was fine to have a beard and be employed by them (and even to shave it off once you'd started), it was about appearance, you were still required to look smart and professional.
Safeway used to have a policy that you coulnd't grow a beard while working for them, but if was fine to have a beard and be employed by them (and even to shave it off once you'd started), it was about appearance, you were still required to look smart and professional. smurf4568
  • Score: 1

3:17pm Thu 29 Mar 12

bigmanboxing says...

GR-London wrote:
This is not new.

Many years ago I was informed by an employer that I could not grow a beard because their dress code was "clean shaven, smart appearance and no tattoos."

The employer is paying you, not the other way around and if they want to present their company's image in a particular way, within reason that is up to them.

Another thing - that is going to be a big deduction of pay, to disappear to pray five times a day!
Sorry but you cannot use personal opinion when dismissing employees especially if its discriminative! it has to be against violation of contract etc.

And I can see your uneducated on Islam, the man would not of had to pray five times in that shift, maybe once on his break as praying starts before sunset and ends in the night time. So it would have been out of his lunch break.
[quote][p][bold]GR-London[/bold] wrote: This is not new. Many years ago I was informed by an employer that I could not grow a beard because their dress code was "clean shaven, smart appearance and no tattoos." The employer is paying you, not the other way around and if they want to present their company's image in a particular way, within reason that is up to them. Another thing - that is going to be a big deduction of pay, to disappear to pray five times a day![/p][/quote]Sorry but you cannot use personal opinion when dismissing employees especially if its discriminative! it has to be against violation of contract etc. And I can see your uneducated on Islam, the man would not of had to pray five times in that shift, maybe once on his break as praying starts before sunset and ends in the night time. So it would have been out of his lunch break. bigmanboxing
  • Score: 2

4:14pm Thu 29 Mar 12

Mr Flange of Wallington says...

I still don't get why the Guardian is playing the race card here.

Clearly, Mr Saleem was taken on without the shop knowing he had a spectaculary mature, totally unoffensive beard. It's not like he was going to be serving food.

This kind of beardist behaviour needs to be nipped in the bud sharpish.

What next; "you can't work here if you're bald".

Has nobody else spotted the date he turned up for work? Perhaps the shop manager was preoccupied thinking of a tenth anniversary or something.
I still don't get why the Guardian is playing the race card here. Clearly, Mr Saleem was taken on without the shop knowing he had a spectaculary mature, totally unoffensive beard. It's not like he was going to be serving food. This kind of beardist behaviour needs to be nipped in the bud sharpish. What next; "you can't work here if you're bald". Has nobody else spotted the date he turned up for work? Perhaps the shop manager was preoccupied thinking of a tenth anniversary or something. Mr Flange of Wallington
  • Score: -1

5:45pm Thu 29 Mar 12

Whatyousaying says...

Is this all the news the guardian could get there hands on? He was fired for having a beard not for being a Muslim get over it and move on
Is this all the news the guardian could get there hands on? He was fired for having a beard not for being a Muslim get over it and move on Whatyousaying
  • Score: -2

6:18pm Thu 29 Mar 12

David7 says...

I thought 1 April wasn’t until Sunday...
I thought 1 April wasn’t until Sunday... David7
  • Score: 0

7:02pm Thu 29 Mar 12

GR-London says...

bigmanboxing wrote:
GR-London wrote:
This is not new.

Many years ago I was informed by an employer that I could not grow a beard because their dress code was "clean shaven, smart appearance and no tattoos."

The employer is paying you, not the other way around and if they want to present their company's image in a particular way, within reason that is up to them.

Another thing - that is going to be a big deduction of pay, to disappear to pray five times a day!
Sorry but you cannot use personal opinion when dismissing employees especially if its discriminative! it has to be against violation of contract etc.

And I can see your uneducated on Islam, the man would not of had to pray five times in that shift, maybe once on his break as praying starts before sunset and ends in the night time. So it would have been out of his lunch break.
You may actually be right there, with so many different versions of Islam it would be difficult to know anything for sure.

In fact I have no interest in religion because from what I see it causes nothing but trouble and I want to live in a peaceful world when everyone gets on together.

Thanks for the info.

Getting back to the beard, only this afternoon I mentioned this story to a Muslim friend and they say "There is no requirement to grow a beard to follow Islam."

No doubt if I ask enough people I will get a variety of answers.
[quote][p][bold]bigmanboxing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GR-London[/bold] wrote: This is not new. Many years ago I was informed by an employer that I could not grow a beard because their dress code was "clean shaven, smart appearance and no tattoos." The employer is paying you, not the other way around and if they want to present their company's image in a particular way, within reason that is up to them. Another thing - that is going to be a big deduction of pay, to disappear to pray five times a day![/p][/quote]Sorry but you cannot use personal opinion when dismissing employees especially if its discriminative! it has to be against violation of contract etc. And I can see your uneducated on Islam, the man would not of had to pray five times in that shift, maybe once on his break as praying starts before sunset and ends in the night time. So it would have been out of his lunch break.[/p][/quote]You may actually be right there, with so many different versions of Islam it would be difficult to know anything for sure. In fact I have no interest in religion because from what I see it causes nothing but trouble and I want to live in a peaceful world when everyone gets on together. Thanks for the info. Getting back to the beard, only this afternoon I mentioned this story to a Muslim friend and they say "There is no requirement to grow a beard to follow Islam." No doubt if I ask enough people I will get a variety of answers. GR-London
  • Score: -1

7:16pm Thu 29 Mar 12

bigmanboxing says...

GR-London wrote:
bigmanboxing wrote:
GR-London wrote:
This is not new.

Many years ago I was informed by an employer that I could not grow a beard because their dress code was "clean shaven, smart appearance and no tattoos."

The employer is paying you, not the other way around and if they want to present their company's image in a particular way, within reason that is up to them.

Another thing - that is going to be a big deduction of pay, to disappear to pray five times a day!
Sorry but you cannot use personal opinion when dismissing employees especially if its discriminative! it has to be against violation of contract etc.

And I can see your uneducated on Islam, the man would not of had to pray five times in that shift, maybe once on his break as praying starts before sunset and ends in the night time. So it would have been out of his lunch break.
You may actually be right there, with so many different versions of Islam it would be difficult to know anything for sure.

In fact I have no interest in religion because from what I see it causes nothing but trouble and I want to live in a peaceful world when everyone gets on together.

Thanks for the info.

Getting back to the beard, only this afternoon I mentioned this story to a Muslim friend and they say "There is no requirement to grow a beard to follow Islam."

No doubt if I ask enough people I will get a variety of answers.
Yeah, regardless of all of that, whether people think its right or wrong, we have to abide by rules and laws whether you are an employee or whether you are an employer, you cannot judge somebody over race, sex or age same way you cannot judge somebody over appearance END OF!


...PS...And maybe your friend needs to study the religion, as it is a requirement to grow the beard according to scholars.
[quote][p][bold]GR-London[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bigmanboxing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GR-London[/bold] wrote: This is not new. Many years ago I was informed by an employer that I could not grow a beard because their dress code was "clean shaven, smart appearance and no tattoos." The employer is paying you, not the other way around and if they want to present their company's image in a particular way, within reason that is up to them. Another thing - that is going to be a big deduction of pay, to disappear to pray five times a day![/p][/quote]Sorry but you cannot use personal opinion when dismissing employees especially if its discriminative! it has to be against violation of contract etc. And I can see your uneducated on Islam, the man would not of had to pray five times in that shift, maybe once on his break as praying starts before sunset and ends in the night time. So it would have been out of his lunch break.[/p][/quote]You may actually be right there, with so many different versions of Islam it would be difficult to know anything for sure. In fact I have no interest in religion because from what I see it causes nothing but trouble and I want to live in a peaceful world when everyone gets on together. Thanks for the info. Getting back to the beard, only this afternoon I mentioned this story to a Muslim friend and they say "There is no requirement to grow a beard to follow Islam." No doubt if I ask enough people I will get a variety of answers.[/p][/quote]Yeah, regardless of all of that, whether people think its right or wrong, we have to abide by rules and laws whether you are an employee or whether you are an employer, you cannot judge somebody over race, sex or age same way you cannot judge somebody over appearance END OF! ...PS...And maybe your friend needs to study the religion, as it is a requirement to grow the beard according to scholars. bigmanboxing
  • Score: 2

7:25pm Thu 29 Mar 12

GR-London says...

bigmanboxing wrote:
GR-London wrote:
bigmanboxing wrote:
GR-London wrote:
This is not new.

Many years ago I was informed by an employer that I could not grow a beard because their dress code was "clean shaven, smart appearance and no tattoos."

The employer is paying you, not the other way around and if they want to present their company's image in a particular way, within reason that is up to them.

Another thing - that is going to be a big deduction of pay, to disappear to pray five times a day!
Sorry but you cannot use personal opinion when dismissing employees especially if its discriminative! it has to be against violation of contract etc.

And I can see your uneducated on Islam, the man would not of had to pray five times in that shift, maybe once on his break as praying starts before sunset and ends in the night time. So it would have been out of his lunch break.
You may actually be right there, with so many different versions of Islam it would be difficult to know anything for sure.

In fact I have no interest in religion because from what I see it causes nothing but trouble and I want to live in a peaceful world when everyone gets on together.

Thanks for the info.

Getting back to the beard, only this afternoon I mentioned this story to a Muslim friend and they say "There is no requirement to grow a beard to follow Islam."

No doubt if I ask enough people I will get a variety of answers.
Yeah, regardless of all of that, whether people think its right or wrong, we have to abide by rules and laws whether you are an employee or whether you are an employer, you cannot judge somebody over race, sex or age same way you cannot judge somebody over appearance END OF!


...PS...And maybe your friend needs to study the religion, as it is a requirement to grow the beard according to scholars.
Like I said, everyone seems to think 'they' know and that's why it seems there may never be peace on this planet.

And that really is the "END OF"!!
[quote][p][bold]bigmanboxing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GR-London[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bigmanboxing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GR-London[/bold] wrote: This is not new. Many years ago I was informed by an employer that I could not grow a beard because their dress code was "clean shaven, smart appearance and no tattoos." The employer is paying you, not the other way around and if they want to present their company's image in a particular way, within reason that is up to them. Another thing - that is going to be a big deduction of pay, to disappear to pray five times a day![/p][/quote]Sorry but you cannot use personal opinion when dismissing employees especially if its discriminative! it has to be against violation of contract etc. And I can see your uneducated on Islam, the man would not of had to pray five times in that shift, maybe once on his break as praying starts before sunset and ends in the night time. So it would have been out of his lunch break.[/p][/quote]You may actually be right there, with so many different versions of Islam it would be difficult to know anything for sure. In fact I have no interest in religion because from what I see it causes nothing but trouble and I want to live in a peaceful world when everyone gets on together. Thanks for the info. Getting back to the beard, only this afternoon I mentioned this story to a Muslim friend and they say "There is no requirement to grow a beard to follow Islam." No doubt if I ask enough people I will get a variety of answers.[/p][/quote]Yeah, regardless of all of that, whether people think its right or wrong, we have to abide by rules and laws whether you are an employee or whether you are an employer, you cannot judge somebody over race, sex or age same way you cannot judge somebody over appearance END OF! ...PS...And maybe your friend needs to study the religion, as it is a requirement to grow the beard according to scholars.[/p][/quote]Like I said, everyone seems to think 'they' know and that's why it seems there may never be peace on this planet. And that really is the "END OF"!! GR-London
  • Score: 0

7:25pm Thu 29 Mar 12

Whatyousaying says...

Mr Saleem turned up at the store on September 9, 2011 after being placed there by the recruitment agency, Adecco.

Why's it taken so long to go to the guardian???
Mr Saleem turned up at the store on September 9, 2011 after being placed there by the recruitment agency, Adecco. Why's it taken so long to go to the guardian??? Whatyousaying
  • Score: 0

8:08pm Thu 29 Mar 12

Monstermunch17 says...

A lot of people going off at tangents here, and the avengers doing her usual green-inked, dated, Alf Garnett schtick.

This is pure prejudice, plain and simple. The guy was rightly disciplined, but Vodafone need to look at their Diversity training, to ensure this sort of disgraceful episode is not allowed to happen again.
A lot of people going off at tangents here, and the avengers doing her usual green-inked, dated, Alf Garnett schtick. This is pure prejudice, plain and simple. The guy was rightly disciplined, but Vodafone need to look at their Diversity training, to ensure this sort of disgraceful episode is not allowed to happen again. Monstermunch17
  • Score: 0

10:14pm Thu 29 Mar 12

Krissi says...

there is a way of a beard of this length can be kept out of the way and tidy Sikhs do it- I am not sure how- and their religion does require no cutting of hair and beard, hence turbans and pugs to keep it out of the way
there is a way of a beard of this length can be kept out of the way and tidy Sikhs do it- I am not sure how- and their religion does require no cutting of hair and beard, hence turbans and pugs to keep it out of the way Krissi
  • Score: 0

11:52pm Thu 29 Mar 12

Vezz says...

If I remember who Adecco are correctly, they are a recruitment agency. This would mean the store manager would not have interviewed him, he would've been placed.

That said, I believe that if you are in a customer-facing role, you should adhere to the policies of your employer.I could be wrong by trying to read between the lines (and also the fact that Mr Saleem is a Muslim - how DID I reach that conclusion??) I think the store manager objected to something else about Mr Saleem and used the beard as an excuse....which has turned and bitten him on the b*m big time.
If I remember who Adecco are correctly, they are a recruitment agency. This would mean the store manager would not have interviewed him, he would've been placed. That said, I believe that if you are in a customer-facing role, you should adhere to the policies of your employer.I could be wrong by trying to read between the lines (and also the fact that Mr Saleem is a Muslim - how DID I reach that conclusion??) I think the store manager objected to something else about Mr Saleem and used the beard as an excuse....which has turned and bitten him on the b*m big time. Vezz
  • Score: 0

8:41am Fri 30 Mar 12

JPR says...

6 months old story... Why now? What the interest? Is this a political statement or and attack against the phone company or? 6 months later lies are so easy.
6 months old story... Why now? What the interest? Is this a political statement or and attack against the phone company or? 6 months later lies are so easy. JPR
  • Score: 0

10:06am Fri 30 Mar 12

surrey-L says...

this is all so boring!

if his religion requires him to have a beard wear a turban blah blah go get a job in a mosque!

I am a catholic from an international upbringing and a employer! Go on- accuse me of the boring old stuff of being racist, beardist, narrow minded blah blah!

This is england not afgan! boring
this is all so boring! if his religion requires him to have a beard wear a turban blah blah go get a job in a mosque! I am a catholic from an international upbringing and a employer! Go on- accuse me of the boring old stuff of being racist, beardist, narrow minded blah blah! This is england not afgan! boring surrey-L
  • Score: -2

10:42am Fri 30 Mar 12

Michael Pantlin says...

surrey-L wrote:
this is all so boring!

if his religion requires him to have a beard wear a turban blah blah go get a job in a mosque!

I am a catholic from an international upbringing and a employer! Go on- accuse me of the boring old stuff of being racist, beardist, narrow minded blah blah!

This is england not afgan! boring
Agree. Perhaps a suitable story line for a boring Ricky Gervais Phone Shop episode set in the Sutton High Street location shop. The recruitment agency should not have sent the poor man there though - a **** up somewhere between the recruitment agency and the phone shop. I'm considering joining a religious cult headed by Jock poo-pong McPlop who cleans the toilets in Aberdeen. I was told about him recently when I asked on the web who holds the freehold deeds of Hadrian's Wall in the event a break away by Scotland and apparently this chap has them :))
The cult would require me to leave my shirt hanging out and stand on my head three times daily while sucking special brew strength lager through a straw - my religious rite.
[quote][p][bold]surrey-L[/bold] wrote: this is all so boring! if his religion requires him to have a beard wear a turban blah blah go get a job in a mosque! I am a catholic from an international upbringing and a employer! Go on- accuse me of the boring old stuff of being racist, beardist, narrow minded blah blah! This is england not afgan! boring[/p][/quote]Agree. Perhaps a suitable story line for a boring Ricky Gervais Phone Shop episode set in the Sutton High Street location shop. The recruitment agency should not have sent the poor man there though - a **** up somewhere between the recruitment agency and the phone shop. I'm considering joining a religious cult headed by Jock poo-pong McPlop who cleans the toilets in Aberdeen. I was told about him recently when I asked on the web who holds the freehold deeds of Hadrian's Wall in the event a break away by Scotland and apparently this chap has them :)) The cult would require me to leave my shirt hanging out and stand on my head three times daily while sucking special brew strength lager through a straw - my religious rite. Michael Pantlin
  • Score: -1

11:17am Fri 30 Mar 12

Tubby Jim says...

why doesn't the silly sausage give it a light trim with a beard and trimmer kit that can be purchased from Argos, I'm with Dr Flange on this one, clearly a beardist issue, and Mr Saleem needs top chill out a bit FFS.
why doesn't the silly sausage give it a light trim with a beard and trimmer kit that can be purchased from Argos, I'm with Dr Flange on this one, clearly a beardist issue, and Mr Saleem needs top chill out a bit FFS. Tubby Jim
  • Score: 0

12:03pm Fri 30 Mar 12

ANNE MILES says...

Just a ruse for compensation.
Just a ruse for compensation. ANNE MILES
  • Score: 1

12:51pm Fri 30 Mar 12

edstar says...

ANNE MILES wrote:
Just a ruse for compensation.
The only person who mentioned compensation is you!
[quote][p][bold]ANNE MILES[/bold] wrote: Just a ruse for compensation.[/p][/quote]The only person who mentioned compensation is you! edstar
  • Score: -1

2:19pm Fri 30 Mar 12

I hope not says...

He wasn't racially or religiously discriminated against, how could the Manager possibly know what his religion was and I know plenty of people that are not white that do not have beards, so it is hardly racial now is it? Admittedly, the Manager got it wrong by thinking beards were banned and tried to sort out his mistake by offering the agency guy to come back, but the poor little lamb didn't want to and was humiliated. So now 6 months after the event, he will no doubt be seeking compensation as he has been unable to work due to the stress? I save my sympathy for the soldiers killed fighting another country's war, not some big baby who spat his dummy out cos the nasty manager didnt like his beard. I think he needs a bit of a reality check.
He wasn't racially or religiously discriminated against, how could the Manager possibly know what his religion was and I know plenty of people that are not white that do not have beards, so it is hardly racial now is it? Admittedly, the Manager got it wrong by thinking beards were banned and tried to sort out his mistake by offering the agency guy to come back, but the poor little lamb didn't want to and was humiliated. So now 6 months after the event, he will no doubt be seeking compensation as he has been unable to work due to the stress? I save my sympathy for the soldiers killed fighting another country's war, not some big baby who spat his dummy out cos the nasty manager didnt like his beard. I think he needs a bit of a reality check. I hope not
  • Score: 1

2:22pm Fri 30 Mar 12

I hope not says...

and since when was it September 9, 2011 ? Check out how you have put yesterday's date - Thursday 29th March 2012. Stop trying to sensationalise what really is essentially a NON story.
and since when was it September 9, 2011 ? Check out how you have put yesterday's date - Thursday 29th March 2012. Stop trying to sensationalise what really is essentially a NON story. I hope not
  • Score: 0

4:36pm Fri 30 Mar 12

bigmanboxing says...

I hope not wrote:
He wasn't racially or religiously discriminated against, how could the Manager possibly know what his religion was and I know plenty of people that are not white that do not have beards, so it is hardly racial now is it? Admittedly, the Manager got it wrong by thinking beards were banned and tried to sort out his mistake by offering the agency guy to come back, but the poor little lamb didn't want to and was humiliated. So now 6 months after the event, he will no doubt be seeking compensation as he has been unable to work due to the stress? I save my sympathy for the soldiers killed fighting another country's war, not some big baby who spat his dummy out cos the nasty manager didnt like his beard. I think he needs a bit of a reality check.
I know the guy personally . hes making enough money with a company who tolerate people from all different backgrounds. but the young man felt powerless that nothing had happened in regards to this abuse and thus he reported it after 6 months of him trying to take action against the manager which had no result.
[quote][p][bold]I hope not[/bold] wrote: He wasn't racially or religiously discriminated against, how could the Manager possibly know what his religion was and I know plenty of people that are not white that do not have beards, so it is hardly racial now is it? Admittedly, the Manager got it wrong by thinking beards were banned and tried to sort out his mistake by offering the agency guy to come back, but the poor little lamb didn't want to and was humiliated. So now 6 months after the event, he will no doubt be seeking compensation as he has been unable to work due to the stress? I save my sympathy for the soldiers killed fighting another country's war, not some big baby who spat his dummy out cos the nasty manager didnt like his beard. I think he needs a bit of a reality check.[/p][/quote]I know the guy personally . hes making enough money with a company who tolerate people from all different backgrounds. but the young man felt powerless that nothing had happened in regards to this abuse and thus he reported it after 6 months of him trying to take action against the manager which had no result. bigmanboxing
  • Score: -1

4:46pm Fri 30 Mar 12

Whatyousaying says...

Why does the headline say update? What has been updated it's still a rubbish story!!
Why does the headline say update? What has been updated it's still a rubbish story!! Whatyousaying
  • Score: 0

1:43pm Sat 31 Mar 12

EverardEdbutt says...

Yet people across the country are unable to wear a crucifix (A symbol of Christianity)

http://www.dailymail
.co.uk/news/article-
1196794/CoE-school-p
upil-banned-wearing-
crucifix-Sikh-pupils
-allowed-wear-bangle
s.html

http://news.sky.com/
home/article/1347516
3

http://www.newsy.com
/videos/cross-contro
versy-stirred-up-aga
in-in-u-k/

A Muslim is under no religious obligation to grow a beard, so you cannot claim the beard is an essential part of the religion

http://www.justaskis
lam.com/41/explainin
g-islam-to-non-musli
ms/

http://www.irfi.org/
articles/articles_20
1_250/growing_beard_
is_it_mandatory_in_i
slam.htm

http://www.bbc.co.uk
/news/10369726
Yet people across the country are unable to wear a crucifix (A symbol of Christianity) http://www.dailymail .co.uk/news/article- 1196794/CoE-school-p upil-banned-wearing- crucifix-Sikh-pupils -allowed-wear-bangle s.html http://news.sky.com/ home/article/1347516 3 http://www.newsy.com /videos/cross-contro versy-stirred-up-aga in-in-u-k/ A Muslim is under no religious obligation to grow a beard, so you cannot claim the beard is an essential part of the religion http://www.justaskis lam.com/41/explainin g-islam-to-non-musli ms/ http://www.irfi.org/ articles/articles_20 1_250/growing_beard_ is_it_mandatory_in_i slam.htm http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/10369726 EverardEdbutt
  • Score: 0

3:18pm Sat 31 Mar 12

CroydonGeorge says...

Couldn't this chap be found a job by Vodafone in Pakistan, Afghanistan or similar places? Surely he'd feel more at home then, and shop customers would not be upset by his appearance. Just a thought ...
Couldn't this chap be found a job by Vodafone in Pakistan, Afghanistan or similar places? Surely he'd feel more at home then, and shop customers would not be upset by his appearance. Just a thought ... CroydonGeorge
  • Score: 1

1:01am Sun 1 Apr 12

Michael Pantlin says...

surrey-L wrote:
this is all so boring!

if his religion requires him to have a beard wear a turban blah blah go get a job in a mosque!

I am a catholic from an international upbringing and a employer! Go on- accuse me of the boring old stuff of being racist, beardist, narrow minded blah blah!

This is england not afgan! boring
Or perhaps a job at London Hairport.
[quote][p][bold]surrey-L[/bold] wrote: this is all so boring! if his religion requires him to have a beard wear a turban blah blah go get a job in a mosque! I am a catholic from an international upbringing and a employer! Go on- accuse me of the boring old stuff of being racist, beardist, narrow minded blah blah! This is england not afgan! boring[/p][/quote]Or perhaps a job at London Hairport. Michael Pantlin
  • Score: -1

2:06am Sun 1 Apr 12

Jazzyking says...

Same ThinNg happened to me!
I was fired from Allied Irish Bank Plc on the sec
Same ThinNg happened to me! I was fired from Allied Irish Bank Plc on the sec Jazzyking
  • Score: 0

12:29pm Sun 1 Apr 12

emelem says...

i personally couldn't care less what someone looks like (esp. if they are providing good customer service, ha!)...it's when they don't bathe that i get somewhat upset. when i can smell the produce guy an isle away, something needs to change!!
i personally couldn't care less what someone looks like (esp. if they are providing good customer service, ha!)...it's when they don't bathe that i get somewhat upset. when i can smell the produce guy an isle away, something needs to change!! emelem
  • Score: 0

2:30pm Sun 1 Apr 12

Michael Pantlin says...

emelem wrote:
i personally couldn't care less what someone looks like (esp. if they are providing good customer service, ha!)...it's when they don't bathe that i get somewhat upset. when i can smell the produce guy an isle away, something needs to change!!
Smokers spoil my day. They still stink even when they are not smoking making me feel sick. Awful when I'm stuck next to one on the bus. Just as bad as B.O.
[quote][p][bold]emelem[/bold] wrote: i personally couldn't care less what someone looks like (esp. if they are providing good customer service, ha!)...it's when they don't bathe that i get somewhat upset. when i can smell the produce guy an isle away, something needs to change!![/p][/quote]Smokers spoil my day. They still stink even when they are not smoking making me feel sick. Awful when I'm stuck next to one on the bus. Just as bad as B.O. Michael Pantlin
  • Score: 0

11:51am Mon 2 Apr 12

Mr Flange of Wallington says...

Don't start upsetting non-bathers and smokers - that is a whole can of whoop-as.s. you don't wanna mess with!

I have a personal abhorance to wearers of sickly, OTT perfume, even if it is covering up something altogether less pleasant. A splash of Brutt is all you need.
Don't start upsetting non-bathers and smokers - that is a whole can of whoop-as.s. you don't wanna mess with! I have a personal abhorance to wearers of sickly, OTT perfume, even if it is covering up something altogether less pleasant. A splash of Brutt is all you need. Mr Flange of Wallington
  • Score: 0

7:30am Tue 3 Apr 12

Malikoff says...

Ahhh please! I'm a Muslim, but that's stupid to come in to a workplace, where you'll be talking to customers all day, with a long beard. The manager had nothing to do with his religion, it's just his inappropriate appearance, not suitable for an employee, meant to serve customers. Most of the customers would be reluctant talking to him, and eventually, coming to the store. The manager did right.
Ahhh please! I'm a Muslim, but that's stupid to come in to a workplace, where you'll be talking to customers all day, with a long beard. The manager had nothing to do with his religion, it's just his inappropriate appearance, not suitable for an employee, meant to serve customers. Most of the customers would be reluctant talking to him, and eventually, coming to the store. The manager did right. Malikoff
  • Score: -1

7:31am Tue 3 Apr 12

Malikoff says...

If I come to my workplace with metal horns erecting out of my head for religious reasons - that would be inappropriate too.

An excuse that I have them for religious reasons stupid, the manager did everything right.
If I come to my workplace with metal horns erecting out of my head for religious reasons - that would be inappropriate too. An excuse that I have them for religious reasons stupid, the manager did everything right. Malikoff
  • Score: -1

7:42am Tue 3 Apr 12

Malikoff says...

bigmanboxing wrote:
GR-London wrote:
bigmanboxing wrote:
GR-London wrote:
This is not new.

Many years ago I was informed by an employer that I could not grow a beard because their dress code was "clean shaven, smart appearance and no tattoos."

The employer is paying you, not the other way around and if they want to present their company's image in a particular way, within reason that is up to them.

Another thing - that is going to be a big deduction of pay, to disappear to pray five times a day!
Sorry but you cannot use personal opinion when dismissing employees especially if its discriminative! it has to be against violation of contract etc.

And I can see your uneducated on Islam, the man would not of had to pray five times in that shift, maybe once on his break as praying starts before sunset and ends in the night time. So it would have been out of his lunch break.
You may actually be right there, with so many different versions of Islam it would be difficult to know anything for sure.

In fact I have no interest in religion because from what I see it causes nothing but trouble and I want to live in a peaceful world when everyone gets on together.

Thanks for the info.

Getting back to the beard, only this afternoon I mentioned this story to a Muslim friend and they say "There is no requirement to grow a beard to follow Islam."

No doubt if I ask enough people I will get a variety of answers.
Yeah, regardless of all of that, whether people think its right or wrong, we have to abide by rules and laws whether you are an employee or whether you are an employer, you cannot judge somebody over race, sex or age same way you cannot judge somebody over appearance END OF!


...PS...And maybe your friend needs to study the religion, as it is a requirement to grow the beard according to scholars.
The beard is not a requirement according to Sunni and Shia - the two most widely spread courses of Islam. However it is a requirement according to Wahhabism - the most radical course. Dude, if you think this is a requirement, most probably you're originally either from Egypt or Saudi Arabia.
[quote][p][bold]bigmanboxing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GR-London[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bigmanboxing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GR-London[/bold] wrote: This is not new. Many years ago I was informed by an employer that I could not grow a beard because their dress code was "clean shaven, smart appearance and no tattoos." The employer is paying you, not the other way around and if they want to present their company's image in a particular way, within reason that is up to them. Another thing - that is going to be a big deduction of pay, to disappear to pray five times a day![/p][/quote]Sorry but you cannot use personal opinion when dismissing employees especially if its discriminative! it has to be against violation of contract etc. And I can see your uneducated on Islam, the man would not of had to pray five times in that shift, maybe once on his break as praying starts before sunset and ends in the night time. So it would have been out of his lunch break.[/p][/quote]You may actually be right there, with so many different versions of Islam it would be difficult to know anything for sure. In fact I have no interest in religion because from what I see it causes nothing but trouble and I want to live in a peaceful world when everyone gets on together. Thanks for the info. Getting back to the beard, only this afternoon I mentioned this story to a Muslim friend and they say "There is no requirement to grow a beard to follow Islam." No doubt if I ask enough people I will get a variety of answers.[/p][/quote]Yeah, regardless of all of that, whether people think its right or wrong, we have to abide by rules and laws whether you are an employee or whether you are an employer, you cannot judge somebody over race, sex or age same way you cannot judge somebody over appearance END OF! ...PS...And maybe your friend needs to study the religion, as it is a requirement to grow the beard according to scholars.[/p][/quote]The beard is not a requirement according to Sunni and Shia - the two most widely spread courses of Islam. However it is a requirement according to Wahhabism - the most radical course. Dude, if you think this is a requirement, most probably you're originally either from Egypt or Saudi Arabia. Malikoff
  • Score: 1

6:53pm Tue 3 Apr 12

bigmanboxing says...

Malikoff wrote:
If I come to my workplace with metal horns erecting out of my head for religious reasons - that would be inappropriate too. An excuse that I have them for religious reasons stupid, the manager did everything right.
Well if you think the manager did everything right you are as much of an arse as the manager. you people make it hard for integration and have double standards
[quote][p][bold]Malikoff[/bold] wrote: If I come to my workplace with metal horns erecting out of my head for religious reasons - that would be inappropriate too. An excuse that I have them for religious reasons stupid, the manager did everything right.[/p][/quote]Well if you think the manager did everything right you are as much of an arse as the manager. you people make it hard for integration and have double standards bigmanboxing
  • Score: 0

10:00pm Tue 3 Apr 12

bigmanboxing says...

Malikoff wrote:
If I come to my workplace with metal horns erecting out of my head for religious reasons - that would be inappropriate too. An excuse that I have them for religious reasons stupid, the manager did everything right.
Well if you think the manager did everything right you are as much of an arse as the manager. you people make it hard for integration and have double standards
[quote][p][bold]Malikoff[/bold] wrote: If I come to my workplace with metal horns erecting out of my head for religious reasons - that would be inappropriate too. An excuse that I have them for religious reasons stupid, the manager did everything right.[/p][/quote]Well if you think the manager did everything right you are as much of an arse as the manager. you people make it hard for integration and have double standards bigmanboxing
  • Score: 0

5:44pm Wed 4 Apr 12

surrey-L says...

Its nothing to do with religion ..

There is only one mentioning of a person having a beard in The Quran, that of Aaron in 20:94, but it is not stated as a command or requirement. Muslim men having a beard is a tradition associated with the reported sayings/practices of prophet Muhammad, as recorded by others.
Its nothing to do with religion .. There is only one mentioning of a person having a beard in The Quran, that of Aaron in 20:94, but it is not stated as a command or requirement. Muslim men having a beard is a tradition associated with the reported sayings/practices of prophet Muhammad, as recorded by others. surrey-L
  • Score: 0

1:20pm Thu 12 Apr 12

Tyler3 says...

Forget religion and if he must wear a beard or not. Yes the date he was sent to the company is odd. The fact remains the man couldn't get over his beard. What about (as mentioned above) Sikhs? What about bikers??? Hello Muslims are not the only ones who don a beard and don't believe they should have to shave it to get a job. Having a beard in Islam is not obligatory but practiced as their prophet had one, as did the prophets of the Bible. Maybe he should have braided it like the Asians do. As long as you are clean and neat it shouldn't matter.
Forget religion and if he must wear a beard or not. Yes the date he was sent to the company is odd. The fact remains the man couldn't get over his beard. What about (as mentioned above) Sikhs? What about bikers??? Hello Muslims are not the only ones who don a beard and don't believe they should have to shave it to get a job. Having a beard in Islam is not obligatory but practiced as their prophet had one, as did the prophets of the Bible. Maybe he should have braided it like the Asians do. As long as you are clean and neat it shouldn't matter. Tyler3
  • Score: 0

8:24pm Sat 14 Apr 12

antwacky says...

I don't like any man with a beard like that, no matter the religion: it lookes dirty. Brings to mind Edward Lear's:

There was an Old Man with a beard,
Who said, "It is just as I feared!—
Two Owls and a Hen, four Larks and a Wren,
Have all built their nests in my beard.
I don't like any man with a beard like that, no matter the religion: it lookes dirty. Brings to mind Edward Lear's: There was an Old Man with a beard, Who said, "It is just as I feared!— Two Owls and a Hen, four Larks and a Wren, Have all built their nests in my beard. antwacky
  • Score: -1

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