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Chair of governors banned from school

9:48am Friday 11th July 2008

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A primary school has banned the chairman of the governors from its premises after he threatened to expose a series of violent incidents involving its pupils.

In one of the most serious episodes at Dorchester Primary School, a six-year-old boy stabbed a teacher with a pencil. In another, a boy was suspended after physically assaulting a girl.

"I simply want these behaviour issues dealt with for the good of the children and the school."

Chris John

But when chairman of the governors Chris John, 40, tried to raise concerns to the authorities about the children's behaviour he was barred from entering the school in Dorchester Road, Worcester Park, by Sutton Council.

Mr John, who has a daughter at the school, is only allowed in the grounds to pick up his child but has been warned if he enters the buildings the council "may have no option but to take further steps."

The governor of four years claims that there have been disturbing incidents involving five unruly children but feels the incidents are not being investigated sufficiently.

He also claimed that attempts were made to keep a disruptive pupil at home while the school was being officially inspected by Ofsted.

He said: "The school is very concerned about image, very much in line with the London borough of Sutton.

"Fur coat but nothing in the fridge is the way I would sum it up."

Mr John, had been approached by parents and teachers earlier in the year raising their concerns.

He said: "Staff didn't feel like there was any continuity in behaviour management, they felt some teachers were managing it well, but others were not.

"The governing body raised the issue with headteacher Louise Austin who resisted the need for any type of behaviour management policy."

Mr John said the pupil who had stabbed a teacher in the arm with a pencil on May 21 was a classic example of how the school's policies were failing.

He claimed this six-year-old was allowed to routinely wander the school as the staff had effectively given up on him attending classes.

A caretaker once found the youngster in the street outside school ground wearing his socks.

Mr John has met with MP Glenda Jackson who has written to the council to have the ban removed.

The National Governors' Association is also considering a complaint to the Secretary of State.

Mr John is seeking legal advice.

He said "I simply want these behaviour issues dealt with for the good of the children and the school."

A council spokesman said: "Issues have been raised at the school that affect Mr John.

"These issues are being investigated appropriately and until this has concluded, Mr John has been requested not to enter the school buildings."

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Sheila take a bow, Sutton says...
10:25am Fri 11 Jul 08

Wow schools being forced to lie and cheat in order to get a good rep and more funding, thats never been heard of before!

why do parents put up with this? why arnt they all down at the school protesting, forcing the school to publicly investigate?

If you play dead, they will treat you as dead!

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Clare, Sutton says...
1:51pm Fri 11 Jul 08

An absolute disgrace. Chris John is standing up for what is RIGHT and the other parents of the school should be standing tall beside him otherwise it is like saying that bad behaviour is tolerated in this school. I feel sorry for this man and give him my full support.

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Anon, Sutton says...
3:02pm Fri 11 Jul 08

Knowing some of the history of this situation, I think it is disgraceful that someone is able to say what they like, with complete disregard for the facts, and for this to be printed in your paper. Many of the issues in this story are nothing other than pure fiction and I and many others find it laughable. If Mr John has such issues with the school, you have to ask why he sends his own daughter there!

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Dr Howard Fredrics, Hampton wick says...
3:57pm Fri 11 Jul 08

At last, a governor who wants to tell the truth about bullying in a school, rather than being part of a cover-up to protect its 'reputation.'
Shame on the Dorchester officials who've chosen to shoot the messenger, instead of taking on the cause of the problems.

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Chris John, London says...
5:59pm Fri 11 Jul 08

All of the claims I have made are completely true and if any reader wished to see the evidence then contact me via the Guardian. LB Sutton appears to be more concerned about protecting their staff from criticism than dealing with the problems that face all our schools today. As for sending my daughter to the school, she has had a good education there but as a Chair of Governors I was concerned with ALL the children and if I was truly selfish then I would have pulled her out of the school.

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Miss T M Young, Croydon says...
7:00pm Fri 11 Jul 08

this does not surprize in the least.
My childrens secondary school regularly underplays events at the school and absolves itself of any responsibilty.
Thankfully my youngest has just finished school.

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Les, Surrey says...
8:53pm Fri 11 Jul 08

Regardless of not knowing the details of this particular case, it's about time that the sheep that inhabit this land wake up to the FACT that the majority or problems that we have in society today originate from incompetent and corrupt government at various levels.

It seems everything about this country just gets worse and worse, we would probably be better off if we could erase the actions of the last thirty years of government.

We need honest and decent people with a realistic view of the world to start straightening out the mess that the self-serving parasites have created.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke (1729-1797).

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Anon, sutton says...
10:03pm Fri 11 Jul 08

As someone who equally knows a great deal about the situation at the school I can wholeheartedly agree with Mr John's comments. He has been brave enough to stand up for what is right. Something the rest of us are too frightened to do!

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John, Surrey says...
12:08pm Sat 12 Jul 08

Whatever happened to freedom-of-speech in this Country? If we are to correct the wrongs in this Country, we have to stand-up as parents and be heard. It is our job when we have children.

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Jan, Sutton, UK says...
7:54pm Sat 12 Jul 08

I think 'Freedom-Of-Speech' went out when 'Big Brother' moved in!

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anon, mitcham says...
9:01am Sun 13 Jul 08

well done Mr John but a lot of schools are like this

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Anon, Sutton says...
11:52pm Sun 13 Jul 08

There are two sides to every story and I can't believe there isn't more to this one. I am sure we will learn more at some point soon which will be very enlightening.

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sarah hillman-mawer, worcester park says...
1:22am Mon 14 Jul 08

I have a child at Dorchester and am concerned! I do intend to press the head about this matter. Logically 'no smoke without fire'.. All parents have received a letter from the head. It is worrying in what it doesn't say! It says nothing about Mr John on the grounds of confidentiality but the wording is emotive and suggests he is somehow a danger to our children!(totally unacceptable and unprofessional) Perhaps other parents should look at the mass exodus of teachers leaving Dorchester this year and wonder why. I think other parents with children at this school should demand answers and info.There doesn't appear to be a real behaviour policy or bullying policy in place - or at least none on their web site. As a teacher myself, I think this situation should be addressed. School is not a 'business' as some heads think. Nor is it an image- although schools are put under pressure to do this! I for one don't mind if pupils are excluded.. a good school should have clear expectations, guidelines and consequences for poor behaviour and have the guts to follow through. Parents too should support behaviour expectations and not make excuses for their children. Parent - dorchester wp

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Anon, Worcester Park says...
6:26am Mon 14 Jul 08

I also have a child at the school and I am not concerned! My child has received a good education at the school. He has certainly not felt at risk of harm from these supposed '5 children'- he doesn't even know who they are meant to be, that just shows how little a problem it is. As for bullying who said their was a bullying issue? With regards to the 'mass exodus' of teachers, there as various reasons for the changes such as a change of career, moving away, promotion
and having a baby! All schools have staff movement just the same as all schools have children with behavioural issues. It is just a shame that Mr Johns has decided to try and 'shame' a great school because of being suspended. Why not ask yourself is this a case of sour grapes?

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Mr Chris John, London says...
9:53am Mon 14 Jul 08

Readers should note that I was suspended from the Governing Body for 'going to the press' and that the suspension only took place because I wouldnt resign as a Governor. The ban is unlawful and just demonstrated the lengths that LB Sutton will go to to preserve image rather than dealing with the real issues that concern all our children within schools.

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Anon1, Worcester Park says...
11:05am Mon 14 Jul 08

I have two children in Dorchester, both have been there since Nursery and my eldest leaves next week. I have to say, they have both had a good education there, have both been very happy and have progressed well. There are some problem children there, there are in every school, but maybe this is because they are in a school that doesnt have the facilities to cope with their issues and should be elsewhere. In the main, all the teachers my children have had have been good, the more experienced teachers there are excellent, they do however, have a large number of younger, inexperienced teachers, as for the behaviour there, its one rule for one I'm afraid and I've seen plenty of evidence of this. Some of the children are punished severely (rightly so), others who have mums as classroom assistants get away with much more, so there is definately a consistency problem. However, I do feel that the school is making some progress and that the new Head is doing what she can to turn things around, this is on the whole, a nice school, with supportive staff and a good (and growing) reputation. My children have never been bullied at Dorchester and I'm confident its not something that would be tolerated. I have always found the staff incredibly supportive if my children have ever had any issues. I agree with Mr Johns that the Borough is not helping by their actions, if there are problem kids in the school then they should be making sure they get the support that they require and I'm sorry that he has been treated in this way for standing up for the rights of not only his own child but all of the children at Dorchester.

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anon, worcester park says...
11:23am Mon 14 Jul 08

How refreshing it is to see a school's covering up of its real image being 'outed'. I'm sure that the school would also be happy to tell OFSTED of the way in which its SAT tests are conducted with great 'help' to raise the overall test scores of a few of its pupils. Obviously I will be damned and asked for my 'evidence'. This is always hard to come by after the event, but the fact that pupils were asked to keep quiet about the teachers methods and that test papers had already been opened before the time of the test would point to more goings on.
However I do beleive that the pressure to succeed has probably caused all of the above, so the LEA should not look to the school for punishment but perhaps OFSTED's keen inspectors and the overuse of league tables.

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Anon, Sutton says...
1:27pm Mon 14 Jul 08

My child starts school at Dorchester this coming September and I am now very concerned if I have made the right choice. You always get trouble students at any school but for this school to make front page news really concerns me. I do hope the school makes some sort of comment back

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Anon1, Worcester Park says...
1:33pm Mon 14 Jul 08

Anon, Sutton. Dont be concerned, if you read my earlier post my children have been there for years, with only good results. Every school has troublemakers, and I'm sure the issues with cover-ups etc isnt purely isolated to Dorchester, its the Boroughs controlling that are at fault. There are some excellent teachers at Dorchester and I've always found the staff there more than happy to help with issues. Its a small minority causing the behaviour issues but there will always be unruly children everywhere, you just need to ensure you know your childs friends, their parents etc and steer them in the direction of those you would want them to mix with !

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Chris John, London says...
3:59pm Mon 14 Jul 08

I must agree; there are indeed some excellent teachers at Dorchester and maybe the Borough/Education Authority is at fault more than anyone. But ultimately you have to ask how well the Children would have progressed had the issues raised by me not happened in the 1st place. I also pose the question; Is image more important that educational achievement?

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Anon, WP says...
5:16pm Mon 14 Jul 08

I was amazed to see the article in last weeks Guardian. I believe I am a parent of one of the five 'disruptive' children and therefore have very mixed emotions about the article. Clearly it is difficult to acknowledge that your child has caused problems in the school and I agree that in certain cases exclusions are necessary and I have never as a parent tolerated the behaviour that my child has at times exhibited. However, it is my belief that my childs more extreme behaviour has come about in the last two years. With this has come extreme inconsistencies in behaviour management, some extremely unprofessional comments and conduct toward myself and my child by some teachers and members of senior management. We have also experienced some bazaare and I believe damaging 'techniques' used in attempts to address his behaviour. In dealings with external professional support they have also highlighted Mr Johns concerns and that of my own - that behaviour management is inconsistent and largely ignored - meaning that these children are allowed to drift through school one minute being totally ignored and the next minute excluded! Confused!? I have been!
I strongly believe that my childs behavioural problems have worsened as a result of the way it has been handled. As a parent of course I appear bias - but again I re-iterate that I support behavioural problems being dealt with firmly whilst also encouraging ALL children to feel good about themselves and comfortable in their environment.
I would re-iterate other comments made that my child has also experienced excellent teaching and support from some teachers and teaching assistants in the past and a child that does not have particular behavioural difficulties would probably do well at the school.
I think we can see in society today what happens when we ignore children with these kinds of difficulties and so it benefits us all to open our eyes to these kinds of problems.

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Mrs Lyn Jarvis, Worcester Park says...
7:13pm Mon 14 Jul 08

As a former employee and parent of Dorchester Primary school I feel a sense of obligation to comment. I believe the issue is not with the children, their behaviour or the teaching staff as my child received a very good education during her time there, but with the former governor Mr Chris Johns with the issue and circumstance of his suspension. The come about of this article should be solely between himself an L B Sutton who enforced his suspension. I don't know why he is trying to bring down the good reputation of the school unless there is deeper issues between himself and current employees we do not know about (is this why he has been suspended). In case of legal implications I will reserve my own views and opinions of Mr Chris Johns for I worked in the school at the same time as him.

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Anonymous, Worcester Park says...
7:21pm Mon 14 Jul 08

I am one of many hard working, caring Learning Support Assistants at Dorchester Primary School. My son also attends the school and I resent the remark that my child would be allowed to "get away" with much more than any other child. He is treated in exactly the same way as any other child, punished in the same way and is offered no special favours because his Mum works there!! In fact, I would say he has found it very hard at times because I work there, as he has felt that I am keeping a very close eye on his behaviour.
I was also one of the support staff that helped during Sat's week and I would like to re-assure everybody that there was nothing underhand going on at all. I resent the remark that we have almost been accused of cheating. ALL the pupils will have achieved the results they deserve, even those you did need extra support throughout the year and not only during Sat's week and any parent reading this should feel extremely proud of their child's achievements and not left wondering if they were "helped" along the way.
Everyone who works at the school cares about what happens to ALL the children and we work extremely hard everyday to help your children become independent and happy.
Dorchester Primary is an excellent school and I for one am really proud to work there and be part of such a great team.

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Chris John, 979-510 says...
7:27pm Mon 14 Jul 08

The school and other people can throw as many insults as they like against me but it does not get away from the facts. I have been prevented from raising very serious concerns all for the sake of image preservation! I have emails from 'frightened' parents who felt unable to complain for fear of retribution and that is simply not acceptable. A good reputation can only be built on trust, openness and transparency. These terms sadly seem to be lacking at this present time. Hang, draw and quarter me but it still wont solve the problems that I have highlighted at Dorchester.

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Anonymous, Worcester Park says...
7:34pm Mon 14 Jul 08

Nobody is trying to hang, draw and quarter you at all. If you read the postings properly then you will see that most of them are directed towards the school and not at you personally. It has got nothing to do with image, we at Dorchester want what is best for ALL the children too. You are not alone in that.

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Chris John, London says...
7:49pm Mon 14 Jul 08

I have today offered an olive branch to LB Sutton in order to try and work together to address the issues. I am still waiting for a reply. I cannot go into the details of why 'all this' started but I will say that in my previous capacity as Chair of Governors I had collated an amount of evidence indicating managerial issues in the school. As a result of those issues being presented to management I was then presented with a complaint against me for daring to raise those issues in the correct way even though I had been advised by the LEA. And for purposes of clarity I am still awaiting LB Sutton to confirm the reasons for my ban. Perhaps I'll get 100 lines or a detention :-)

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Anonymous, Worcester Park says...
8:05pm Mon 14 Jul 08

You never know your luck!!

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ANON, WP says...
8:41pm Mon 14 Jul 08

As an extremely worried parent I am now questioning why in 12 months thirteen teachers and 6 support staff have left the school, many of them being loyal, long standing members of staff. Maybe their views should be sought?
A worried parent

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Carol, Worcester Park says...
9:02pm Mon 14 Jul 08

I recall two of the schools deputies leaving recently too.

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DOrchester Mum, Worcester Park says...
9:11pm Mon 14 Jul 08

My 2 children go to Dorchester and one of them has needed some extra support at school having found it very difficult to cope with the school environment after some family trauma.

Due to the care and support the school, the teachers and in particular, the clasroom assistants have given, my child has now settled, behaves in line with school rules and is now back to the well balanced, well mannered child they were before.

In all this, I truly believe that the classroom assistants are the unsung heroes. THey are the people who bear the main brunt of the behaviour from children who need some special attention. To go to the newspaper which in my opinion is a very single sided and often misleading forum is unacceptable.

Mr Johns, I understand that you may have some frustrations, but surely this isnt the right way to go about this ?? All you are doing is breeding gossip and making people decide who they think these 5 pupils are. I know from experience that my child came across as a distruptive child when all that was needed was some understanding and some support from the authorities. I worked very hard with the school who were absolutely FANTASTIC. THis is not the way to deal with these issues and I expected more from someone who was privvy to confidential information and has used it against the school and the pupils.

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Concerned Parent, Sutton says...
9:46pm Mon 14 Jul 08

I'm a parent of 2 kids at Dorchester and am 100% aware of the circumstances surrounding this fiasco. While Chris has valid concerns these all hapenned before the current head was appointed and the situation has tuned around completely. It's sad when a parent (especially a Governor) has a grudge and aclash of personality and blows it completely out of proportion just for spite. Doesnt he realise its the kids he's hurting most?

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anonymous, says...
10:02pm Mon 14 Jul 08

I am another concerned parent of 2 children Dorchester but am of the opinion that the current behavioural issues began around the time the current head was appointed. My son who is now in Year 12 attended Dorchester and had an excellent education there andnever came home telling the stories that my youngest two do. There are still strong teachers there from my eldest sons time at the school but the school does seem to currently have a high percentage of inexperienced staff which I would imagine does not help the situation. I have discussed this issue with several woried parents and know I am not alone in considering taking my children out of the school.

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Pete, Surbiton says...
10:07pm Mon 14 Jul 08

Something doesn't seem right about all this. The buck is flying around, yet no-one seems to want to take responsibility for this mysterious problem, whatever it might happen to be.

Obviously the children in question can't be identified; that would be a breach of confidentiality (and besides I'm not interested in knowing who they are anyway).

But the question is, do teachers, staff, pupils - or parents, for that matter - genuinely feel that their safety is under threat when they enter the school?

Chris John's suggestion that LB Sutton wants to protect their staff from criticism sounds plausible, on the surface of it. But I think most people are more concerned with physical danger than criticism. The idea that anyone is more interested in being uncriticised than in actually being safe strikes me as far-fetched.

The fact that people seem to have time to indulge in mud-slinging suggests to me that the problems can't be all that bad. But hey, I could be wrong.

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anon, WP says...
10:11pm Mon 14 Jul 08

Carol wrote:
I recall two of the schools deputies leaving recently too.
One Deputy was promoted to be head of another school, and the other had a change of career. please get your facts right before you sling mud

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anon, WP says...
10:20pm Mon 14 Jul 08

This has become silly. Unfortunately due to the way this was reported the general populous only have one side of the story.

As we all know there are three sides to every story; The school's, Mr John's and then theres the Truth.

I urge the LEA and the school to resolve this issue as soon as possible so clear up any ambiguity. If there are legitimate reasons for Mr John's suspension these should be investigated and concluded as rapidly as possible before the rumour mill takes over and this issue becomes something that it's not.

It is also our responsibility as parents to wait until all the facts have been presented before we make any hasty decisions.

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Carol, 917-077 says...
10:23pm Mon 14 Jul 08

Fact - one of the above deputies left Dorchester to become a DEPUTY HEAD (a sideways move) and has been appointed head from September 2008 when she left in !!July 2007

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anon, sutton says...
10:27pm Mon 14 Jul 08

Mr John is doing what any good govenor should do in high lighting problems that are not being resolved at school level.
For this he is being victimised, would he have been banned if he hadn't chosen to bring this to light? Are the allegations about him true or just a smoke screen.

I know for a fact his allegations are true the behaviour and language of some children at Dorchester would not be tolerated in prisons so why should staff have to put up with it. Classroom assistants have to deal with these problem children while teachers have to teach the children who behave. Without classroom assistants classes would be disrupted but i'm sure taking abuse and violence isnt in their job discription as one of their duties.

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Anon, N Cheam says...
11:40pm Mon 14 Jul 08

I agree that some of the behaviour I have been informed of would not be acceptable in a prison and I am concerned that if nothing is done Dorchester will soon have more than 5 unruly pupils!

What about the average child who wants to learn, are they being rewarded for their positive behaviour or are they just left to get on with it?

The classroom assistants appear to be dealing with a lot more than just assisting the teachers and valuable time is surely being taken away from children who deserve support, which is after all why they are there.

We can all say that if you are worried about the schools reputation move, but that is easier said than done especially if you have more than one child. Also with the amount of houses being built in the area it will soon be as difficult as getting a secondary school place!

Mr John hasnt gone about this issue in the best way as unfortunately he's reputation is now at stake, but I do believe he has the childrens best interest at heart. It isnt so much the teaching standards which are being questioned (why else would he still have a child there), but the behaviour.

This matter needs to be sorted before it gets completely out of hand.

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Chris John, London says...
12:16am Tue 15 Jul 08

The solution to this problem is simple; The LEA should apologise to me for the shameful way they have treated me and then work with the school to improve all the issues I identified as Chair of Governors. In fact, I'd be happy to forego the apology if they I actually took my concerns seriously.

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Another Anon, WP says...
8:56am Tue 15 Jul 08

anon wrote:
Mr John is doing what any good govenor should do in high lighting problems that are not being resolved at school level. For this he is being victimised, would he have been banned if he hadn't chosen to bring this to light? Are the allegations about him true or just a smoke screen. I know for a fact his allegations are true the behaviour and language of some children at Dorchester would not be tolerated in prisons so why should staff have to put up with it. Classroom assistants have to deal with these problem children while teachers have to teach the children who behave. Without classroom assistants classes would be disrupted but i'm sure taking abuse and violence isnt in their job discription as one of their duties.
What any good governor would do is work with the LB to resolve such issues.

I do not see how dragging the school, and also some employees of the school, through the press and tarnishing an improving reputation with "their" side of the story does this, i do not see.

All this article has succeeded in doing is worrying parents and children with half facts.

The kids at Dorchester are now concerned that they might be "one of the 5" and are fearing the backlash on them. How does this help?

I understand Mr Johns has some gripes with the LB or the school, but in a position that he held, i feel he has abused his role by going to the newspaper on this.

Mr Johns, could i request 2 comparisons from you, firstly with other schools in the area. 5 incidents in however many years amoungst however many children?! and also, a comparison in the schools records between now and say 3 years ago. It would seem some of your facts are quite historic and begs the question why you feel the need to drag up old news, when the school is clearly on the up....

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Dorchester Mum, Surrey says...
9:29am Tue 15 Jul 08

My suggestion would be for the Guardian to pull this story from their web-page. Its causing too much upset.

Of course Mr Johns has a right to have his viewed aired, but the school and the children have rights as well. I dont see how endless slanging matches over the internet are helping, this isnt highlighting any issue other than this is not being dealt with in a professional manner.

All Mr John's has done is held everyone to ransom, including the children he claims to care so much about and start a witch-hunt.

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Chris John, London says...
9:45am Tue 15 Jul 08

I have not abused any position. The Governing Body, LEA and HT were not prepared to listen to my concerns and act on them. I have a document from LB Sutton Inclusion Service dated June 2008 identifying areas for review at the school and this information was to be presented to the Governors but I was prevented from doing so by the sudden appearance of a spurious complaint against me. This review would have provided the school with help and advice to manage behaviour much more effectively. And it is not about how many incidents there are or the number of children causing those incidents BUT it is about the effect those incidents have on the rest of our children. They have the right to a good education too. Everyone seems to have forgotten this. As for suggesting my facts are historic, well all I can say is there was another incident of violence on 9th June during my 'final days' as Chair of Governors. As for the school being 'on the up'....some things have improved but some things have not.I finally ask an open question "Do readers agree that it is right for disruptive child's parent to be asked to keep their child out of school for reasons of sickness during an OFSTED inspection?" I have evidence of this and that is not 'Behaviour Management' in any sense of the word. When professionals are entrusted with our children's education and welfare they should do it correctly and if they are struggling to cope than help is available. Unfortunately if the individual tasked with asking for help does not feel able to ask or they dont want to admit that they need help then the children suffer.

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Dorchester Mum, Surrey says...
10:07am Tue 15 Jul 08

My point Mr John's, is that this is not the right forum for this. I agree with many of your points, I just dont agree that going to the newspaper is the way forward.

My son has needed help for his behaviour in school. For the last few years I had asked for help and had been ignored. Until the new Head came along, then I was listened to and some efforts made. And now my son has settled and is working well and not causing anyone any issues. He was never a bad child, he needed some HELP.

WHich is my point, how is this very public, very one-sided account HELPING???

I completely agree that every child has the right to a good, safe education. I also believe that ALL children need a level of commitment from the schools/parents etc. ANd I firmly believe that Dorchester has one or two pupils that need specialist help that maybe Dorchester cant provide. I'm with you on a lot of your points. But my child has been in the school for 7 years, and as a parent, I truly feel that the behaviour there is changing, for the better.

This just isnt the way, your valid points are being lost in the turmoil that this is causing. And both my children came home yesterday speculating and throwing names around as to who the "5 monster children" are.

That is completely unacceptable. How is that going to help a child already struggling ? Dorchester is a close-knit school where most people know each other and regardless of names being given, this is just serving to identify and make examples of the children cuasing some issues. This is a matter to be dealt with in private, between the school, their parents and the Local Authorities that need to step up to the plate and see these kids as individuals, not rate their issues purely by the use of a scorecard.

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Mr Chris John, London says...
10:40am Tue 15 Jul 08

When the GB,HT and LB Sutton produce an acceptable plan to tackle the issues that I have identified in the school then this debate will end. Please tell me what forum is available to me when the Governing Body, HT and LB Sutton choose not to listen?
When you have dealt with a member of staff who has broken down in tears trying to help the children and when you have witnessed children being allowed to wander the school aimlessly because the 'system' has given up on them then you can chastise me. Going to the newspapers was a last resort but the issues had been going on for months before. I would not simply stand by and watch any more. LB Sutton and the Governing Body should be focusing on how the school is managed and not trying to turn this around on me. I have the evidence; what am I supposed to do, shred it?

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anon, says...
10:45am Tue 15 Jul 08

I thought the reason parents are governers is because they have the childrens best interests at heart as oppossed to employees of LBS who have targets etc.

Staff are not at fault management are in charge of discipline.

The teachers and ta's are doing a good job. Dorchester is a good school. Its the teachers and ta's that suffer rather than other pupils therefore management need to look at how they deal with problems.If stricter discipline was used this wouldn't be an issue.

This would be a completely different story if someone got badly injured and it wasn't reported. Mr John is in a no win situation he's doing what i understand to be his job.

Going to the paper might not be the right way to deal with it but we don't know what led to him doing this or how he'd tried to resolve it before he went to the paper.

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anon, says...
10:46am Tue 15 Jul 08

I thought the reason parents are governers is because they have the childrens best interests at heart as oppossed to employees of LBS who have targets etc.

Staff are not at fault management are in charge of discipline.

The teachers and ta's are doing a good job. Dorchester is a good school. Its the teachers and ta's that suffer rather than other pupils therefore management need to look at how they deal with problems.If stricter discipline was used this wouldn't be an issue.

This would be a completely different story if someone got badly injured and it wasn't reported. Mr John is in a no win situation he's doing what i understand to be his job.

Going to the paper might not be the right way to deal with it but we don't know what led to him doing this or how he'd tried to resolve it before he went to the paper.

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Anon, Stonecot Hill says...
10:56am Tue 15 Jul 08

My child starts Dorchester this September and I am now at a loss as to what to do! Have I chosen the wrong school for my child? I'm sure all schools have their problems and problem students but why has this school made front page news as opposed to any other Sutton School? I am now thinking about keeping my child back a year and applying for another school? Is rational? What do you the parents advice me to do? Is this a good, safe school or should I jump ship now while I can?

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Dorchester Mum, Surrey says...
10:58am Tue 15 Jul 08

Mr John's, we could debate this forever.

I understand your concerns, I've had concerns of my own but have always raised them and thankfully, they've been dealt with. But I still stand by my belief that Dorchester, whilst it clearly has some failings, is a good school where my children have been very happy and progressed very well.

I guess on this one we'll have to agree to disagree. But I hope that the issues you have raised are dealt with and that you get the outcome you are looking for with all concerned.

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Mr Chris John, London says...
10:59am Tue 15 Jul 08

Thank you for those comments. I think you sum it up nicely. For everyone's information being Chair of Governors places that individual as the HT's 'line manager' and there are huge responsibilities that go with that role. I have simply discharged my responsibilities but the follow up action was not forthcoming from even the Governing Body or the LEA. I sent an open email to staff the other day explaining that I appreciated their efforts and I know full well how hard they work in trying to balance the curriculum and behaviour. Anyway, the ball is LB Sutton's court now and they need to demonstrate a commitment to finding solutions.

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Parent Dorchester, Sutton says...
11:25am Tue 15 Jul 08

I think it is a real shame that all the parties involved cannot get together to sort the issues out

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anon, Sutton says...
11:42am Tue 15 Jul 08

As a prospective new parent sending my child to school in September, I think this article has damaged my opinion of the School and I think the School/Council really need to make some sort of statment regarding this. I have no knowledge or experience of this school yet but it dosen't make this anxious time for me any easier. Not sure what to do about this one.

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carly, london says...
11:43am Tue 15 Jul 08

Mr John, I dont know what has happened & to be honest I'm not particularly fussed, I have no intention of sending my kids to schools in this area as I am based in Mitcham.
What I would like to know is why you seem ell bent on wanted an apology for your treatment? Yes from what the story says you have been ill treated because you have tried to raise issues about the school.
But is it not the children that deserve an apology as these are the people suffering here if what is said is true?
Are they not the ones that you, & all councilers & members of the school need to give priorty to so that any incidents such as this do not occur again?

I think people need to stop slating each other & pull their fingers out so that their children get the best out of their youth.

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Chris John, London says...
11:53am Tue 15 Jul 08

I have been trying to get the 'powers that be' to take action for months. You will notice in a previous post that I would happily forego an apology if the situation was resolved in the right way. Simply shooting the messenger will not make the issues go away. I am genuinely concerned for the children but it seems to me even now that LB Sutton, the GB and the HT are more concerned about the messages being sent than dealing with the real issues that are happening within the school. A Consistent, enforceable approach to all children is what is required along with the right support and training for staff.

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Anon, Sutton says...
1:29pm Tue 15 Jul 08

I think it is in fact Mr John that should be apologising both to the 5 children who are now the subject of much speculation as to who they may be, and to parents, both current and prospective, for causing such unfounded concern. The issues raised (as with many other schools) were and are being dealt with in an appropriate manner but it is unrealistic to expect anything to change overnight. A high profile campaign by you, causing much upset and concern is not only an abuse of information you were privy to in your EX capacity as Chair of Governors, but an abuse of trust placed in you by staff, parents and pupils alike. Everybody wants to work together to continue to improve all aspects of the school, and all this fiasco has succeeded in doing is hindering this. Well done Mr john!

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anon, sutton says...
1:37pm Tue 15 Jul 08

Oh my god! Just read the article and some of your comments. My daughter starts Dorchester in September. Is this a good school or are all these alegations true? Can somebody please tell me. Thank you.

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Chris John, London says...
1:54pm Tue 15 Jul 08

anon wrote:
Oh my god! Just read the article and some of your comments. My daughter starts Dorchester in September. Is this a good school or are all these alegations true? Can somebody please tell me. Thank you.
The allegations are all true and I have the evidence to substantiate it! As for Dorchester being a good school. I think the answer is yes but it could be so much better if the issues I have raised (and the ones I have not raised publicly)were dealt with. When I was Chair of Governors I would have assured you unreservedly but given how I have been treated and how some parents have been treated then I would have to say that you need to consider all the options. But I can assure you that there are good teachers in the school and excellent support staff but they can only do their job if supported when necessary.

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Mr Chris John, London says...
1:56pm Tue 15 Jul 08

anon wrote:
Oh my god! Just read the article and some of your comments. My daughter starts Dorchester in September. Is this a good school or are all these alegations true? Can somebody please tell me. Thank you.
The allegations are all true and I have the evidence to substantiate it! As for Dorchester being a good school. I think the answer is yes but it could be so much better if the issues I have raised (and the ones I have not raised publicly)were dealt with. When I was Chair of Governors I would have assured you unreservedly but given how I have been treated and how some parents have been treated then I would have to say that you need to consider all the options. But I can assure you that there are good teachers in the school and excellent support staff but they can only do their job if supported when necessary.

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Mr Chris John, London says...
2:00pm Tue 15 Jul 08

anon wrote:
Oh my god! Just read the article and some of your comments. My daughter starts Dorchester in September. Is this a good school or are all these alegations true? Can somebody please tell me. Thank you.
The allegations are all true and I have the evidence to substantiate it! As for Dorchester being a good school. I think the answer is yes but it could be so much better if the issues I have raised (and the ones I have not raised publicly)were dealt with. When I was Chair of Governors I would have assured you unreservedly but given how I have been treated and how some parents have been treated then I would have to say that you need to consider all the options. But I can assure you that there are good teachers in the school and excellent support staff but they can only do their job if supported when necessary.

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Mr Chris John, London says...
2:12pm Tue 15 Jul 08

Anon wrote:
I think it is in fact Mr John that should be apologising both to the 5 children who are now the subject of much speculation as to who they may be, and to parents, both current and prospective, for causing such unfounded concern. The issues raised (as with many other schools) were and are being dealt with in an appropriate manner but it is unrealistic to expect anything to change overnight. A high profile campaign by you, causing much upset and concern is not only an abuse of information you were privy to in your EX capacity as Chair of Governors, but an abuse of trust placed in you by staff, parents and pupils alike. Everybody wants to work together to continue to improve all aspects of the school, and all this fiasco has succeeded in doing is hindering this. Well done Mr john!
I think you should be looking at why a Chair of Governors was ever placed in this position by the school in the 1st place. The issues raised have NOT been dealt with in an appropriate manner as you suggest. Ask yourself the question why on earth would I stick my neck on the 'block' like this? I have nothing to gain personally from any of this. But certain people at the school may have a lot to lose if the truth is finally revealed. As for the so called '5' children...I fought hard to get them more support, I spoke with teachers, support staff, parents and advisers from the LEA and I did as much as I could but I was met with resistance and dismissal for daring to challenge a system that in my opinion and the opinion of professionals was not working as well as it should. Oh and I'm still waiting to meet with LB Sutton who seem to be 'riding the storm' rather than talking.

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Dorchester Mum, Worcester Park says...
2:17pm Tue 15 Jul 08

anon wrote:
Oh my god! Just read the article and some of your comments. My daughter starts Dorchester in September. Is this a good school or are all these alegations true? Can somebody please tell me. Thank you.
I had ducked out of this forum because I've made my comments and my point has been made. But I felt compelled to respond to yours, and the other prospective parents queries about the suitablility of this school.

I dont doubt CHris John's has valid concerns, and I hope he manages to resolve them and keep his reputation in tact in what has become a massive mud slinging exercise.

I can tell you this. My son has been at Dorchester since nursery, is about to leave next week and has been there a total of around 7 years. My daughter is there as well, now in Year 4.

Neither of my children have ever been bullied, have never had anything but minor issues (falling out with friends etc, the usual), the behaviour in the school is no worse than any other, certainly not as bad as some. The Head is strict, supportive and is making a difference, the teachers at the school are lovely and the classroom assistants, what can I say, they have been FANTASTIC with both my children.

This is a happy school, with (in the main) pleasant, polite children, coming from nice, well mannered families. The parents support the school events and the school is a nice environment which is improving year on year with the money raised by those hard working parents that support the school.

All schools have unruly children, as a parent all I can tell you is that my children are more than happy to go to school every day and have always been well looked after when they are there.

I'd urge you to go talk to the school, see the children in action, make up your own minds !!!!! My daughter has another 2 years there and I'm in no way concerned at all......

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Parent Dorchester, Sutton says...
2:31pm Tue 15 Jul 08

I think you will see that Mr John also believes it is a good school but it is what we dont see as parents that worries me. Perhaps LB Sutton should hold a Public meeting to discuss why the issues have gone as far as they have?? Anyway, I'm happy with my child at the school but maybe I should take a more active role just to be sure?

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Anon, W Park says...
4:02pm Tue 15 Jul 08

Chris John wrote:
The solution to this problem is simple; The LEA should apologise to me for the shameful way they have treated me and then work with the school to improve all the issues I identified as Chair of Governors. In fact, I'd be happy to forego the apology if they I actually took my concerns seriously.
Yes I do agree that these concerns should be taken seriously, even if it came out there are no problems, what harm would it do to investigate? I am sure a lot more parents minds would be put at ease who have children at Dorchester.

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Anon, WP says...
4:42pm Tue 15 Jul 08

At Dorchester the majority of the children succeed well and are well looked after.
Unfortunately it is those few children with behavioural difficulties (and yes all schools have children with these issues Dorchester should not come across as a school full of un-ruly children, far from it)that in my experience seem to be coming off worse.
The head teacher will go to great lengths to cover up the real situation with these few children.

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ANON, Surrey says...
5:05pm Tue 15 Jul 08

Dorchester is a great school, it looks after all its pupils with great care. Yes, there are some unruly pupils but why should that be blamed on the school? If you ask me it is partly down to the parents to sort out their children if they are being disruptive without a proper reason. Dorchester is a fabulous school and doesnt deserve this bad press over a pathetic argument between Governors and any future pupils parents or current parents should not be concerened over this. I hope you have made yourself and your family proud after taking this to the press.

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Chris John, London says...
5:19pm Tue 15 Jul 08

There are no 'pathetic arguments' here. I had and still have real concern for ALL the children at the school. As for the press I simply answered questions honestly or would you prefer that a Chair of Governors simply stands by and watches? As I said before there are good teachers and support staff at the school but there job could be made so much easier (and the education of your children better) if individuals took on board real concerns and reacted in a professional way rather than 'hitting back' with spurious complaints in order to 'head off' possible investigations and reviews. I'm still waiting for a reply from LB Sutton and can only assume that their lack of response is confirmation of their intention to maintain the 'smoke screen' and not deal with the issues raised. I'm proud of what I have done for the school over the last 4 years and saddened that it ever had to go this far to get the authorities to take notice.

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anon, worcester park says...
5:23pm Tue 15 Jul 08

I am a parent helper at the school and yes there are a few children who can be disruptive but they are dealt with efficiently and very effectively by the teaching assistants at all times. If on ocassion I have seen these pupils who have left the classroom for whatever reason, there is always a teaching assistant close behind them. They are not allowed to wander aimlessly around the school doing whatever they like when they like. Besides, most of the problem will be gone by the end of next week, then perhaps the staff can get on with teaching the rest of the children, the children who are left can get on with their education and this debate will end. Parents of these children should be grateful to all the staff at the school for putting up with them over the last few years but it has NEVER affected my childrens education. the school will go from strength to strength if only they are allowed to get on with it and do their jobs. I have always found the staff pleasant and approachabel and most of the children are polite and good mannered. New parents should not be concerned about sending their child to the school at all.

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Sheila, WP says...
6:37pm Tue 15 Jul 08

I find it extremely concerning that the head teacher or school has not responded to these claims. Surely if the school/LB Sutton had noting to hide there would be a response.

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anon, worcester park says...
7:05pm Tue 15 Jul 08

Not everyone finds it concerning that there is no response from the Head. I for one think the Head is doing the right thing. EVERY school where ever you are has unruly or disruptive children I say to all of you get a life!! Perhaps its time now to remove it from the site and let the people involved sort it out between themselves.

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anon, WP says...
7:17pm Tue 15 Jul 08

Not everyone finds it concerning that there is no response from the Head. I for one think the Head is doing the right thing. EVERY school where ever you are has unruly or disruptive children I say to all of you get a life!! Perhaps its time now to remove it from the site and let the people involved sort it out between themselves.

I think if you look above at the comments you will see this is a popular story and news forums tend to keep them open for obvious reasons. There is no smoke without fire.

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anon, wp says...
7:49pm Tue 15 Jul 08

It maybe a popular story but is this the right place to conduct a debate of such delicacy and importance whilst ruining the reputation of a good school and distrurbing the good children in that school? I know nothing of the history behind it but obviously have read with great interest all the comments posted, I have one question for Mr. John, did you decide to spill the beans before or after you were suspended?

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Anon, WP says...
7:55pm Tue 15 Jul 08

I think it extremely naive for anyone to believe that some of the entries listed have not been made by the head teacher!

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Anonymous, Anonymous, Sutton says...
9:09pm Tue 15 Jul 08

I have no wish to join in this debate. However I would like to reassure those parents whose children are due to atart at Dorchester in September who are, understandably, concerned. I am a Teaching Assistant at Dorchester but it is not my local school so my children go elsewhere. However if I would be quite happy for any of my children to attend Dorchester as I believe it is an excellent school where staff are dedicated and act in the best interest of the children at all times. I hope this goes some way to reassuring you.

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anon, wp says...
9:39pm Tue 15 Jul 08

I would be interested to hear or read what some of the pupils think about their time in the school.How if at all these pupils have affected their education,have they spoilt their time there, have they interrupted lessons, do they even know who these pupils are? Has support been taken away from them because support staff have to attend to the disruption caused by these "unruly" children? Maybe somebody should go and ask them.

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ANON, Worc Park says...
9:53pm Tue 15 Jul 08

I quote the parent helper listed above:

"If on ocassion I have seen these pupils who have left the classroom for whatever reason, there is always a teaching assistant close behind them. They are not allowed to wander aimlessly around the school doing whatever they like when they like. Besides, most of the problem will be gone by the end of next week, then perhaps the staff can get on with teaching the rest of the children, the children who are left can get on with their education and this debate will end. Parents of these children should be grateful to all the staff at the school for putting up with them over the last few years."

Clearly here you are referring to particular children in a particular year group. Appauling. I think with this kind of attitude you should seriously consider your position-voluntary or not. You have the same attitude that some in the school are being accused of; that children that represent a challenge are not worthy of an education in the same way as others.
Don't get me wrong of course disruptive children can be frustrating. But NO child is disruptive 'without good reason' yes this is sometimes a diagnosed problem but also at times difficulties within family situation.
Are we as workers within a school and learning environment with CHILDREN to disregard those that struggle and coast with them until they leave and celebrate the day they are gone. It is important to safeguard the education of many and if a child disrupts they should be dealt with. But this doesn't always mean coming down on them like a ton of bricks and making them feel like an outcast. That will only serve to heighten the issue.

As for the comment 'parents should be grateful to the teachers for putting up with them all these years'

Surely a teacher / teaching assistant etc would go into support ALL children as best they can.

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Mr Chris John, London says...
11:48pm Tue 15 Jul 08

The beans were spilt before I was suspended as a Governor. So no, it is not 'sour grapes'. I was also banned from the school in a calculated attempt by the LEA to discredit me before I could spill the beans.I have plenty of other issues that I have not gone public on concerning what goes on 'internally' at Dorchester. Anyway, I am sure certain people are wishing for the end of term, hoping this 'problem' goes away rather than dealing with it in the right way.

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Anon, Cheam says...
8:50am Wed 16 Jul 08

I believe the headteacher is doing the right thing by not responding on this website. It would not be very professional to have this discussion on such a forum.
However I do have a question for Mr John, if you were only suspended once you 'spilt the beans' to the local paper, how come you already have a suspension letter in the photograph. I suggest you were suspended a while before this, and it does, as mentioned previously, look like sour grapes. No need to bring the school down with you.

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Mr Chris John, London says...
8:54am Wed 16 Jul 08

Get your facts right! I was banned from the school premises on 25th June 2008. Suspended as a Governor on 9th July 2008.

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annon, wp says...
10:13am Wed 16 Jul 08

Something must be going on, There have been at least 4 year 6 pupils removed from year 6 by their parents, one was even an old parent govenor who removed her son. Last years old year 6 year 7 now at least 4 of them was kicked out of cheam high before christmas. So it goes to show something is not right.

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Parent, WP says...
11:22am Wed 16 Jul 08

Clare wrote:
An absolute disgrace. Chris John is standing up for what is RIGHT and the other parents of the school should be standing tall beside him otherwise it is like saying that bad behaviour is tolerated in this school. I feel sorry for this man and give him my full support.
It obvious to anyone with a half a brain that there is something going on. Are the issues raised simply being ignored to try and protect the reputation of one person by discrediting another? Anyway, someone needs to get both sides talking, however difficult that might be :-(

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graham, WP says...
12:35pm Wed 16 Jul 08

I think we need answers from Mr John about who he initially raised his concerns with, the press just say 'authorities'. Does this mean the school, the LEA or the police. And what was their reaction, did they immediately suspend him and ban him from the school. Surely there is more going on here than the simplified story given. I simply don't believe that a governor raises concerns over issues of violence and behaviour and is suspended as a knee-jerk reaction, especially with the current media hysteria over out-of-control children. What's the real story here? Are there personal clashes between Mr John and other parties and if so parents have a right to know. The sooner parents know, the sooner we can act accordingly. Let's have some facts and honesty for once.

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Chris John, London says...
12:50pm Wed 16 Jul 08

Thank you Graham for your common sense approach. Without going into the specifics all I can say is I had concerns as Chair of Governors with a Senior manager in the school. It was recommended by the LEA and agreed with 2 governors to meet with that manager to informally resolve those issues and to avoid the very public situation we now have. Unfortunately that manager reacted 8 days later with a complaint against me and I was left no option but to formalise my original concerns with a formal complaint. I believe the LEA have acted foolishly by banning me from the school in a misguided attempt take the 'heat' off the manager concerned. The ban was carried out without the agreement of the Governing Body at the meeting on 19th June 2008.To date neither my solicitor or Member of Parliament have had any response to their formal request for the unlawful ban to removed and as such this will only add to my belief that LB Sutton is 'riding the storm' in the hope that this will all go away. I hope this gives all readers an insight.

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Graham, WP says...
1:22pm Wed 16 Jul 08

Thank you for shedding some light on the confusion Mr John, but where in the whole story does the violent pupil conduct fit? Were the concerns you had specifically about the senior staff member's handling of troublesome pupils or was this just one aspect the press have decided to focus on? I think parents' concerns are focused more on worries about pupil behaviour and less about the managerial functions of the school.

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Mr Chris John, London says...
1:42pm Wed 16 Jul 08

Behaviour management had been a long standing concern of mine, other members of the Governing Body and staff. I met with LB Sutton advisers on 4th June 2008 suggesting a complete review of(and in effect an inspection of the school)Behaviour management within the school. I went to see these advisers as a direct result of the escalating physical behaviour of one child and my concerns about the approach to behaviour within the school. To say I had my 'eyes opened' by these advisers is an understatement. I was amazed at the amount of help that could be provided to a school with disruptive children and yet for reasons still unclear, the school may not have been seeking the appropriate level of help available. It was proposed that I would raise the issue of the behaviour management review at the Full Governing Body Meeting on 19th June and it is my belief that individuals did not want that course of action to take place. There was then a perfect opportunity to 'head me off' and the review that I had planned to request was prevented from taking place. I cant comment for the press but I will say that one violent incident is one too many and again it is my belief that if the school had maybe requested more assistance from LB Sutton sooner then some of incidents that took place may not have happened at all. I was also very shocked when a vulnerable 6 year old child was able to leave the premises unsupervised only to be found wandering in the streets. Had harm come to that child (and thank god it did not) then I doubt we'd be having this discussion at all but looking at possible criminal charges. Also remember that Behaviour Management is a 'managerial function' and one that is crucial for the well being and safety of all children and staff. It is for all the above reasons that I still believe I did the right thing!

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Governor, Merton says...
2:28pm Wed 16 Jul 08

As a Governor from another school I am surprised at how this situation has been handled. It is obvious to me that staff and parents need to know what Governors actually do and are supposed to do. If indeed the allegations that Mr John has made are true (I am sure the paper would not carry the story if he couldnt produce evidence) then this school's governing body should take a close look at how they perform their role. I have also looked at this school's OFSTED report and I note that the Governing was acknowledged as an effective governing body and the Chair at the time was presumably Mr John? So what has happened in such a short space of time? Where there issues kept from the 'prying eyes' of the inspectors? Anyway, pull yourselves together and resolve the differences between Mr John and the school for everyone's sake.

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Private, Cheam says...
7:35pm Wed 16 Jul 08

Don't believe much of the propaganda that surrounded the letter giving reasons why many of the staff are leaving this year . . . wasn't there a fairly high exodus last year?
I agree with the 'no smoke without fire' comment.
The letter that went out as a reaction to the article last week was also a joke . . . more propaganda that made Mr John sound a danger to children!

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DP Parent, Surrey says...
7:48pm Wed 16 Jul 08

I think the letter was defamatory to say the least. I cannot believe the LEA or the Governors allowed such a statement to be made?! What has the HT got to hide?

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Prospective Parent, Sutton says...
10:08pm Wed 16 Jul 08

My child starts school at Dorchester in September what did the letter say? Is there anything about this debate that I should be worried about?

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Anon, WP says...
10:12pm Wed 16 Jul 08

I think you should be worried about what happens if you dare to upset the Head Teacher ;-)

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Prospective Parent, Sutton says...
10:20pm Wed 16 Jul 08

Oh my god what does that mean? do you have chidren at the school? Are they happy there? Should I not send my child there? You have got me very worried now.

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Mr Chris John, London says...
10:28pm Wed 16 Jul 08

Let's not get this out of proportion. There are some managerial issues at the school. If you're a new parent then rest assured there's a terrific team in the Nursery and I'm sure your child will settle well.

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Prospective Parent, Sutton says...
10:34pm Wed 16 Jul 08

well what about the Head Teacher then? What did the last comment mean "I shouldn't upset the Head?"

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anon, London says...
11:06pm Wed 16 Jul 08

Maybe you need to speak with other parents to make your decision about the HT.

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Current Parent, North Cheam says...
11:57pm Wed 16 Jul 08

I would discuss your concerns with present parents as there are lots of worried parents who I know are looking at getting there children out of Dorchester at the moment. I have had children at the school for the last nine years and have noticed a dramatic decline in the behaviour there over the last two years. Luckily for me, my youngest son leaves there next week and after the year they have had I can not say it has been a minute to soon. We considered moving him last summer after listening to some of the recounts he told of his school day and how the head mistress dealt with things but decided that in his final year in Primary school this would not be a good move. I would advise you to speak to other parents first.

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anon, worcester park says...
7:25am Thu 17 Jul 08

Let me put the record stratight for ALL parents new or current.
I work at D.P school and I love my job and being part of a great team and I feel really saddened by all the mud slinging I have read up to date.
ALL staff from the cleaners to the Head Teacher work very hard everyday to make your children's learning environment a happy,fun,secure and safe place to come to.
We all care about the welfare of your children - ALL children regardless.Throughou
t their time with us we have laughed with them and yes cried with them at times too. We are not monsters, we are caring, passionate, considerate, impartial human beings.To us it is more than just a job.
Since this debate started there has been a huge amount of mud slinging and accusations none of which are true.
ALL schools have 1 or 2 disruptive children and there are any number of reasons why they are, and our school is do different.We as staff deal with the behaviour very effectively as we are trained to do so. Let me re-assure you, these children are NOT a danger to any other child attending the school.I understand that you will think I am bias towards the school and you are right, however, ask yourselves this question, Would I send my own child to a school where I thought they would be in danger every day? NO!! I would not as neither would any other good parent. So before you remove your child from our school think very carefully. Look at our Ofsted report, talk to other parents ask them if their children are happy here and I am sure you will find that they are. Then write down the pros and cons for staying and I guarantee that there will be more pros for staying than to move on. In my opinion, the whole situation has been blown up out of all proportion, so I hope I have gone some way to putting it back into perspective for you all. After all there is nothing more important than your childs well being, happiness, safety and education and I believe that we at Dorchester give ALL the children an excellent start in life.

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Staff Member DP, WP says...
7:51am Thu 17 Jul 08

Did the HT promise you a promotion to post this? :-)

May I ask if the allegations are not true then why did a respected newspaper print them?

I do n0t think any reasonable person who does not work at the school would think the same as you.

Remember Parents makes choices by what the see and hear and get a gut feeling for.

Staff makes choices by what they are told to do and say and where they might be next year if they dont 'toe the line' :-(

You have to also ask yourself why a previous part time Deputy has moved sideways and gone full time at a new school?


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Chris John, London says...
7:57am Thu 17 Jul 08

I must take exception to one of the previous posters who stated ALL schools have 1 or 2 disruptive children and also said Since this debate started there has been a huge amount of mud slinging and accusations none of which are true.

I afraid Dorchester has more than 1 or 2 disruptive Children and ALL the allegations I have made are TRUE and backed up by evidence.

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anon, worcester park says...
8:20am Thu 17 Jul 08

Staff Member DP wrote:
Did the HT promise you a promotion to post this? :-) May I ask if the allegations are not true then why did a respected newspaper print them? I do n0t think any reasonable person who does not work at the school would think the same as you. Remember Parents makes choices by what the see and hear and get a gut feeling for. Staff makes choices by what they are told to do and say and where they might be next year if they dont 'toe the line' :-( You have to also ask yourself why a previous part time Deputy has moved sideways and gone full time at a new school?
How dare you!! I am a very reasonable person and I am entitled to my opinion, perhaps it is you who should think about whether or not you have chosen the right career! After all we are here for the children not governed by which year group we will be allocated to next year!! That is remark is totally irrelevant to the point in question and not for the public domain. I do agree parents do make choices by what they see and hear but they will be making choices about their childrens future based on hearsay not fact as we have not yet been presented will ALL the facts yet and thats all I was trying to say. I stand by what I said.

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DP Parent, WP says...
9:52am Thu 17 Jul 08

anon wrote:
Staff Member DP wrote:
Did the HT promise you a promotion to post this? :-) May I ask if the allegations are not true then why did a respected newspaper print them? I do n0t think any reasonable person who does not work at the school would think the same as you. Remember Parents makes choices by what the see and hear and get a gut feeling for. Staff makes choices by what they are told to do and say and where they might be next year if they dont 'toe the line' :-( You have to also ask yourself why a previous part time Deputy has moved sideways and gone full time at a new school?
How dare you!! I am a very reasonable person and I am entitled to my opinion, perhaps it is you who should think about whether or not you have chosen the right career! After all we are here for the children not governed by which year group we will be allocated to next year!! That is remark is totally irrelevant to the point in question and not for the public domain. I do agree parents do make choices by what they see and hear but they will be making choices about their childrens future based on hearsay not fact as we have not yet been presented will ALL the facts yet and thats all I was trying to say. I stand by what I said.
So when do you think staff will be presented with facts?

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Jill, W Park says...
10:31am Thu 17 Jul 08

Bravo to Chris John, My grandchildren did attend the school a good while ago, it had a lovely atmosphere but things have changed dramatically over the past year,why would there be a ""mass exodus " of teachers, that alone is disturbing. I wish Chris John every success with trying to bring things into the open,it needs someone like him to bring the matter to a head

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sam, croydon says...
11:29am Thu 17 Jul 08

Yes I agree Bravo Mr. Johns. Too many chairs of governing bodies seem to be intent on being the H.T's best friend rather than ensuring they are doing their job adequately.The governing body I assume elected Mr. Johns to the position of chair and so should be giving him their backing. It should always be questioned when there is a high staff turnover. The behaviour of children is not the issue so much as how is this being dealt with. Are special needs being identified, discipline put in place etc. I hope you continue to take your responsibilities seriously Mr. Johns. Maybe in time parents and staff will thank you for trying to highlight problems.

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Chris John, London says...
12:53pm Thu 17 Jul 08

Thank you for those kind words of support

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ANON, worcesterpark says...
5:17pm Thu 17 Jul 08

well done mr john about time all these schools stopped covering up the truth far too many children are just left wondering round the schools as teachers and heads are at a loss what to try next well get them out and let the children that want to learn get on with it instead of all the time being wasted on these un greatful kids instead of **** footing around them teach the ones that want to be their im soooo pleased mr johns is not putting his head in the sand like some other school in worcester park and to all the new parents wondering what to do about putting there children into a school if a school tells you there is no bullying at there school then avoid them as all schools have bullies its just covering up and the teachers are powerless over these children and the kids no this thats why there act like this i think get them out and use the place for children that want to learn have the places also if you think its only primary schools then your in for a shock as the children with these needs will get in to the chosen school over yours if it comes to it believe me been there got the t shirt what is this country coming to no wonder people are moving away to all you heads and teachers who are powerless get some bottle and stand up for yourselves stop the cover up be proud of the school and don t get dragged down in the results of good school whats the point of a good report from ofsted if the kids are running rings round you and YES I DO NO WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT I SEE IT EVERY DAY. i fully back you all the way well done mr john

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Another parent of Dorchester, Worcester Pk says...
5:53pm Thu 17 Jul 08

I agree Mr John needs to bring attention to the behavioural issues at the school. At least one of the disruptive children is in my daughter's class and they clearly need more discipline. It's no use giving up on them, allowing them to wander the school - take them out of class and bring in the parents to sort out the issues. My children are very happy at Dorchester and the majority of the staff are excellent. They are always helpful and good with the children. I just wish the HT and Governors would sort this situation out and inform the parents exactly what is going on there !

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anon, sutton says...
5:57pm Thu 17 Jul 08

ANON wrote:
well done mr john about time all these schools stopped covering up the truth far too many children are just left wondering round the schools as teachers and heads are at a loss what to try next well get them out and let the children that want to learn get on with it instead of all the time being wasted on these un greatful kids instead of **** footing around them teach the ones that want to be their im soooo pleased mr johns is not putting his head in the sand like some other school in worcester park and to all the new parents wondering what to do about putting there children into a school if a school tells you there is no bullying at there school then avoid them as all schools have bullies its just covering up and the teachers are powerless over these children and the kids no this thats why there act like this i think get them out and use the place for children that want to learn have the places also if you think its only primary schools then your in for a shock as the children with these needs will get in to the chosen school over yours if it comes to it believe me been there got the t shirt what is this country coming to no wonder people are moving away to all you heads and teachers who are powerless get some bottle and stand up for yourselves stop the cover up be proud of the school and don t get dragged down in the results of good school whats the point of a good report from ofsted if the kids are running rings round you and YES I DO NO WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT I SEE IT EVERY DAY. i fully back you all the way well done mr john
What do you suggest we do with these children then? Give up? Ignore it? If you have something constructive to say then please say it or if you can offer a true solution then please feel free, cos it seems to me you don't know what you are talking about.

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DP Staff, WP says...
6:16pm Thu 17 Jul 08

The solution is obvious. Accept the help that is available rather than pretending you can manage everything on your own. I think it is obvious that the HT cannot delegate and thinks asking for help as a weakness.Lose the ego and help the children!!!

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anon, Sutton says...
6:21pm Thu 17 Jul 08

Everyone seems to know who these unruley children are/where so why didn'nt the parents step in do something about thier behaviour problems. If my child was causing such problems at school and distrubting classes so much that it affected other children's education I would sort this out with them at home.It wouldn't go on for much longer. What exactly do the parents have to say? What discipline
do these parents show these children at home? Not alot I imagine.Maybe they should have a meeting with the Head and try to resolve this as all this hearsay is ruining a good schools reputation.

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sam, croydon says...
6:50pm Thu 17 Jul 08

anon wrote:
Everyone seems to know who these unruley children are/where so why didn'nt the parents step in do something about thier behaviour problems. If my child was causing such problems at school and distrubting classes so much that it affected other children's education I would sort this out with them at home.It wouldn't go on for much longer. What exactly do the parents have to say? What discipline do these parents show these children at home? Not alot I imagine.Maybe they should have a meeting with the Head and try to resolve this as all this hearsay is ruining a good schools reputation.
The trouble is not always down to a lack of discipline but because of our present governments inclusion policy. If a child has special needs they are more often than not in mainstream schools. Unfortunately, because of the diversitys of their needs, there is not always the staff qualified to support their needs. The "unruly" children perhaps need help that they are not getting because their needs are not being recognised or dealt with. This will obviously also effect those children with mainstream needs.Mr. Blunkett has a lot to answer for!

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ex DP staff, Surrey says...
7:16pm Thu 17 Jul 08

As an ex member of DP staff I know only too well about the behavioural issues in the school. They were one of the reasons I left. The staff have battled for over a year to get help with the situation they find themselves in but as somebody above has said the head will not accept support as it will be viewed as a sign of weakness. It is a real shame as not long ago Dorchester was a great school with impeccably behaved children.

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Anonymous, Cheam says...
7:43pm Thu 17 Jul 08

Here Here Sam!
Some people live in a bubble and do not realise that even the most loving and well disciplined homes can produce children that don't cope in school. I work as a TA in a school where some of the most disruptive children come from great parents who go to great lengths to support their children AND the school.

So perhaps it best not to be so judgemental and hang, draw and quarter any child that you object to.
So Anon from Sutton -
Have you tried being a child in school these days? Its blooming hard!
Also Have you heard of Austism, ADD, ADHD, Dyslexia, Dyspraxia etc. As Sam said these children are forced to cope in mainstream schools and then some ignorant adults are so quick to condemn them!
I don't know what is going on at Dorchester but if the accusations are true then these children will be made worse because of the way they are being treated.
I hope ANON from Sutton doesn't work in a school!

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DP Parent, WP says...
7:44pm Thu 17 Jul 08

sam wrote:
anon wrote:
Everyone seems to know who these unruley children are/where so why didn'nt the parents step in do something about thier behaviour problems. If my child was causing such problems at school and distrubting classes so much that it affected other children's education I would sort this out with them at home.It wouldn't go on for much longer. What exactly do the parents have to say? What discipline do these parents show these children at home? Not alot I imagine.Maybe they should have a meeting with the Head and try to resolve this as all this hearsay is ruining a good schools reputation.
The trouble is not always down to a lack of discipline but because of our present governments inclusion policy. If a child has special needs they are more often than not in mainstream schools. Unfortunately, because of the diversitys of their needs, there is not always the staff qualified to support their needs. The "unruly" children perhaps need help that they are not getting because their needs are not being recognised or dealt with. This will obviously also effect those children with mainstream needs.Mr. Blunkett has a lot to answer for!
I'm afraid you sound like a militant teacher blaming everyone else and not accepting any responsibility to teach ALL children. I admire Mr John. At least he was prepared to stand up what he believed in rather than being an ostrich!!!! Shame on the Governing Body for not supporting him.

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Anon, Worcester Park says...
7:50pm Thu 17 Jul 08

Chris

After reading some of the comments above . . . what were you trying to resolve with these behavioural issues? Do you, like some comments written, feel that the children should be out of the school permanently?

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Anon, WP says...
7:51pm Thu 17 Jul 08

As anon from Cheam says, I too hope that Anon from Sutton doesn't work in a school, not only from what they have said but also as they haven't any spelling or grammar skills. I would also assume they have little or no training in the above mentioned disorders.

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anon, Sutton says...
8:17pm Thu 17 Jul 08

How comes as soon as a child is misbehaving they have ADHD or ADD! It seems to be the new label that we can use to excuse bad behaviour

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anon, north cheam says...
8:17pm Thu 17 Jul 08

There is a lot of image protecting on this post. Teachers trying to protect their school image, Mr John trying to protect his already somewhat tarnished image. At the end of the day its simple Mr John does not like the headteacher and is on some propaganda campaign. My childwill not be attending the school in September but not due to the reputation that Mr John is spouting, but purely I would not want to be associated with a board of governors who deal with issues in such a marxist way. Well done Mr John, for the interest your plight is attracting, but please spare a thought for the children in all of this it is their reputations you are destroying too!!!

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New Parent, Stonecot Hill says...
8:29pm Thu 17 Jul 08

anon wrote:
There is a lot of image protecting on this post. Teachers trying to protect their school image, Mr John trying to protect his already somewhat tarnished image. At the end of the day its simple Mr John does not like the headteacher and is on some propaganda campaign. My childwill not be attending the school in September but not due to the reputation that Mr John is spouting, but purely I would not want to be associated with a board of governors who deal with issues in such a marxist way. Well done Mr John, for the interest your plight is attracting, but please spare a thought for the children in all of this it is their reputations you are destroying too!!!
Hi there, My child is due to start reception this coming September and due to all this huge mess at Dorchester and I am not sure I want him to be assosiated with a School that has got so much bad publicity. From one article there are so many opions and arguments going on I don't know who to believe and know don't know what is best for my child. Was your child due to start September too?

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anon, cheam says...
8:41pm Thu 17 Jul 08

anon wrote:
There is a lot of image protecting on this post. Teachers trying to protect their school image, Mr John trying to protect his already somewhat tarnished image. At the end of the day its simple Mr John does not like the headteacher and is on some propaganda campaign. My childwill not be attending the school in September but not due to the reputation that Mr John is spouting, but purely I would not want to be associated with a board of governors who deal with issues in such a marxist way. Well done Mr John, for the interest your plight is attracting, but please spare a thought for the children in all of this it is their reputations you are destroying too!!!
Here Here!

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Chris John, London says...
8:51pm Thu 17 Jul 08

Anon wrote:
Chris

After reading some of the comments above . . . what were you trying to resolve with these behavioural issues? Do you, like some comments written, feel that the children should be out of the school permanently?
I wanted to ensure that there was a consistent approach across the school regardless of the teacher,LSA or individual child. Too many mixed messages were appearing and I know that staff felt unsupported because even when a child escalated their level of disruptive behaviour the appropriate sanctions did not eacalate to match that behaviour. I also felt that the 'well behaved' children were being failed because there daily routine at school was continually disrupted and yet nothing appeared to be done to support both the children causing the disruptive behaviour or the ones affected by it. I also felt that a lack of appropriate intervention, in effect, allowed a child to repeat their behaviour and 'set themselves' up for exclusion time and time again. It would be interesting if the HT will publish the results of the anonymous staff survey that I had to 'push' through with another Governor which identified several issues within the staff and, low and behold, behaviour was a substantial concern to staff at the school. I have the results of that survey for any interested parties!

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Chris John, London says...
9:01pm Thu 17 Jul 08

anon wrote:
There is a lot of image protecting on this post. Teachers trying to protect their school image, Mr John trying to protect his already somewhat tarnished image. At the end of the day its simple Mr John does not like the headteacher and is on some propaganda campaign. My childwill not be attending the school in September but not due to the reputation that Mr John is spouting, but purely I would not want to be associated with a board of governors who deal with issues in such a marxist way. Well done Mr John, for the interest your plight is attracting, but please spare a thought for the children in all of this it is their reputations you are destroying too!!!
I do spare continual thoughts for the children. As for my 'tarnished' image as you put it, that will be dealt with in the near future via the courts. I am sorry that I had to raise the issue in this way but the HT, Governing Body and LEA were not prepared to listen to my genuine concerns. As I said before, when you have had to comfort a member of staff in floods of tears because of sheer frustration because she was not being supported by management, when you've had to listen to a parent frightened to complain to the HT because and I quote " She's only started talking to me again" and when you have witnessed a child go missing only to be found wandering the streets in his socks them maybe you would have taken the same action as me.

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anon, wp says...
9:04pm Thu 17 Jul 08

Chris John wrote:
Anon wrote: Chris After reading some of the comments above . . . what were you trying to resolve with these behavioural issues? Do you, like some comments written, feel that the children should be out of the school permanently?
I wanted to ensure that there was a consistent approach across the school regardless of the teacher,LSA or individual child. Too many mixed messages were appearing and I know that staff felt unsupported because even when a child escalated their level of disruptive behaviour the appropriate sanctions did not eacalate to match that behaviour. I also felt that the 'well behaved' children were being failed because there daily routine at school was continually disrupted and yet nothing appeared to be done to support both the children causing the disruptive behaviour or the ones affected by it. I also felt that a lack of appropriate intervention, in effect, allowed a child to repeat their behaviour and 'set themselves' up for exclusion time and time again. It would be interesting if the HT will publish the results of the anonymous staff survey that I had to 'push' through with another Governor which identified several issues within the staff and, low and behold, behaviour was a substantial concern to staff at the school. I have the results of that survey for any interested parties!
I am as I am sure many others would be interested to see the results.How do we get to see them? Perhaps they could shed more light on the debate.

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Chris John, London says...
9:07pm Thu 17 Jul 08

I suggesting asking the Governing Body to produce the results. Failing that I think I have a copy of the original 'unedited' version somewhere ;-)

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anon, wp says...
9:27pm Thu 17 Jul 08

Chris John wrote:
I suggesting asking the Governing Body to produce the results. Failing that I think I have a copy of the original 'unedited' version somewhere ;-)
So do we approach the HT for the results or is it confidential in school? Or how do we read your "unedited" version? Will it help me as a parent decide whether or not I should send my children to DP? Or is it just another version of mud slinging?

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sam, croydon says...
9:33pm Thu 17 Jul 08

anon wrote:
How comes as soon as a child is misbehaving they have ADHD or ADD! It seems to be the new label that we can use to excuse bad behaviour
If your child was lactose intolerant, would you expect them to drink a glass of milk each day? Or would you complain when they had a rash, vomited etc?
Back in the 60's my brother misbehaved, as you so nicely put it. I now see someone whose education suffered therefor in turn their career and so therefor their life.Maybe with the right label he could have acheived far more than he was able to as he was(and is )obviously intelligent. By the way, autism is a very real disorder that is diagnosed by more than one professional over a period of time and presents very differently from adhd, yet the two can often be combined. One very real disorder is ignorance.
I thank God for people like Anonymous, Cheam obviously a T.A. who has bothered to find out the possible problems the children she works with may have.

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anon, sutton says...
9:45pm Thu 17 Jul 08

sam wrote:
anon wrote: How comes as soon as a child is misbehaving they have ADHD or ADD! It seems to be the new label that we can use to excuse bad behaviour
If your child was lactose intolerant, would you expect them to drink a glass of milk each day? Or would you complain when they had a rash, vomited etc? Back in the 60's my brother misbehaved, as you so nicely put it. I now see someone whose education suffered therefor in turn their career and so therefor their life.Maybe with the right label he could have acheived far more than he was able to as he was(and is )obviously intelligent. By the way, autism is a very real disorder that is diagnosed by more than one professional over a period of time and presents very differently from adhd, yet the two can often be combined. One very real disorder is ignorance. I thank God for people like Anonymous, Cheam obviously a T.A. who has bothered to find out the possible problems the children she works with may have.
As have I, who is also a TA working at DP and with my extensive training helps me to deal with and recognise these disorders everyday.

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ANON, wp says...
9:50pm Thu 17 Jul 08

New Parent wrote:
anon wrote: There is a lot of image protecting on this post. Teachers trying to protect their school image, Mr John trying to protect his already somewhat tarnished image. At the end of the day its simple Mr John does not like the headteacher and is on some propaganda campaign. My childwill not be attending the school in September but not due to the reputation that Mr John is spouting, but purely I would not want to be associated with a board of governors who deal with issues in such a marxist way. Well done Mr John, for the interest your plight is attracting, but please spare a thought for the children in all of this it is their reputations you are destroying too!!!
Hi there, My child is due to start reception this coming September and due to all this huge mess at Dorchester and I am not sure I want him to be assosiated with a School that has got so much bad publicity. From one article there are so many opions and arguments going on I don't know who to believe and know don't know what is best for my child. Was your child due to start September too?
It surely would be hasty to consider withdrawing your child from the school on the basis of a one sided newspaper article and the largely anonymous posts on this forum. I am sure you will agree that it would be unprofessional for the HT and the Governors to respond by posting on this website. I am confident they are taking all necessary steps to deal with Mr John's allegations. Two of my children are at Dorchester whilst the eldest has completed her education there. My family believe it is a great school; standards are rapidly rising, the huge majority of children love going to school there and have fun whilst learning. The school has a fantastic community feel and very dedicated staff. If you are feeling concerned why not phone the school and ask to have a look round and a chat with the HT or another senior manager? I am sure this will put your mind at rest. I can guarantee that you won't see badly behaved children roaming freely around the school unchecked, but you will see pleasant well behaved pupils enjoying the end of term festivites. If you reread the posts on this forum parents are largely in agreement that Dorchester is a good school where their children have received a good education. Lastly I would question whether Mr John has the children's interests foremost in his heart or whether he is more interested in stirring up trouble in a situation where there appears to have been concern over his position as Governor, the details of which are unknown. I would also question his integrity given his apparent willingness to disclose confidential information in this forum and to the paper!

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Ex member of staff, London says...
10:06pm Thu 17 Jul 08

Ah, the headteacher speaks at last!!!!!!!

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ANON, WP says...
10:18pm Thu 17 Jul 08

Ex member of staff wrote:
Ah, the headteacher speaks at last!!!!!!!
I dont think so!!!! Just a caring parent that fells sad that such a happy school is being so ill thought of.

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anon, north cheam says...
10:26pm Thu 17 Jul 08

Chris John wrote:
anon wrote: There is a lot of image protecting on this post. Teachers trying to protect their school image, Mr John trying to protect his already somewhat tarnished image. At the end of the day its simple Mr John does not like the headteacher and is on some propaganda campaign. My childwill not be attending the school in September but not due to the reputation that Mr John is spouting, but purely I would not want to be associated with a board of governors who deal with issues in such a marxist way. Well done Mr John, for the interest your plight is attracting, but please spare a thought for the children in all of this it is their reputations you are destroying too!!!
I do spare continual thoughts for the children. As for my \'tarnished\' image as you put it, that will be dealt with in the near future via the courts. I am sorry that I had to raise the issue in this way but the HT, Governing Body and LEA were not prepared to listen to my genuine concerns. As I said before, when you have had to comfort a member of staff in floods of tears because of sheer frustration because she was not being supported by management, when you\'ve had to listen to a parent frightened to complain to the HT because and I quote \" She\'s only started talking to me again\" and when you have witnessed a child go missing only to be found wandering the streets in his socks them maybe you would have taken the same action as me.
I would have preferred to to it in a gentlemanly internal fashion rather than setting off on some trouble stirring propaganda media frenzy.

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Anon, Cheam says...
10:26pm Thu 17 Jul 08

Well done last post (ex-member of staff)My thoughts exactly!
Except I'm pretty sure I can see some posts from her previously!

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Anon, Cheam says...
10:30pm Thu 17 Jul 08

Mr John
If individuals have an interest in speaking to you how would we go about it?


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Chris John, London says...
11:55pm Thu 17 Jul 08

Please contact me at

truthaboutdorchester
@hotmail.com

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Mr Chris John, London says...
11:56pm Thu 17 Jul 08

Sorry, should be:

truthaboutdorchester
@hotmail.co.uk

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DP Staff, WP says...
12:00am Fri 18 Jul 08

anon wrote:
Chris John wrote:
I suggesting asking the Governing Body to produce the results. Failing that I think I have a copy of the original 'unedited' version somewhere ;-)
So do we approach the HT for the results or is it confidential in school? Or how do we read your "unedited" version? Will it help me as a parent decide whether or not I should send my children to DP? Or is it just another version of mud slinging?
Just ask the HT and see what response you get....or should that be 'light the blue touch paper and stand well back'

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