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Time to pay back Salter's Hill fines

11:32am Friday 4th July 2008

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By Matt Watts »

The Streatham Guardian is calling on Lambeth Council to pay back thousands of pounds in fines handed to motorists at a flawed money-spinning junction, after another council vowed to reimburse all drivers it had fined in a similar way.

A massive 6,286 penalty notices were handed out in just 128 days last year to drivers who had supposedly failed to give way correctly at the Salter's Hill junction in Upper Norwood.

But despite a Parking and Traffic Appeals Service (PaTas) adjudicator ruling the junction was flawed, Lambeth has flatly refused to reimburse everyone fined there.

This is equivalent to more than £300,000 if each motorist stumped up the reduced £50 fine offered to those paying early.

Yet Sheffield Council announced last month it would give everyone it had fined for breaking rules at "tram gates" it had installed in the city their money back.

Like Lambeth, the council had been told by an adjudicator the gates were flawed, and had inadequate signage.

But unlike Lambeth, Sheffield decided to admit its mistake and pay back everyone who writes to claim their money, in a move which could cost it £350,000.

Former Beulah Hill resident Jonathan Greatorex, who successfully appealed his Salter's Hill fine, said: "Lambeth needs to do the right thing. It must acknowledge that the money gained through that junction was not gained honestly.

"If one of the council's residents acted like this they would call it fraud, but the council think because of who it is it can get away with it."

He said both cases were identical because an adjudicator had ruled the junction - or tram gate - itself was flawed, not just that the individual fine was wrong, and therefore everyone was likely to have been wrongly penalised.

Sheila Ranger, deputy director of motoring watchdog RAC Foundation, said that morally Lambeth Council should pay back everyone at the junction, but she did not imagine it would because legally it was not obliged to.

She said: "When people pay the fine they admit liability, so it then becomes difficult to demand money back because you have admitted making a mistake.

"It's terrible really. People are put in a difficult position because they know if they don't appeal they only pay half of the fine. Often people just accept their fate even though they know they were wrongly fined."

A Lambeth Council spokesman said it would not reimburse everyone because although the council had made some improvements to the layout and signage at the junction, it did not accept that there were any shortcomings with its design that would have caused a large number of motorists to be ticketed unfairly.

He added: "We always encourage anyone who believes they have been given a ticket unfairly to appeal."

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Mr S Carpenter, West Norwood says...
5:01pm Fri 4 Jul 08

I believe Lambeth council to be in the wrong and they should be more than happy to pay back the money, otherwise this would be deemed daylight robbery.

Pete, Surbiton says...
5:09pm Sat 5 Jul 08

I suppose this just means that everyone's going to have to go through the formality of submitting their own individual appeal, then.

When people pay the fine they admit liability, so it then becomes difficult to demand money back because you have admitted making a mistake.
Difficult - but not impossible. I'd be surprised if the fact that one person has already won an appeal against a fine dished out under ths same circumstances won't be of great help at other people's hearings.

mr wheeler, south wales/ex london says...
1:26pm Thu 10 Jul 08

typical lambeth council what a bunch of jumped up tossers they never get anything right coz they are left wing

leo, london, lambeth says...
5:58pm Fri 11 Jul 08

The fact of the matter is that the law states that once you have paid you have admitted the offence and even if fraud has clearly taken place lambeth holds onto your money like gollom and his precious ring.
There is in effect nowhere to appeal to after you have paid. you can however complain to the council but having done that myself they simply say the classic helpful parking warden line' you should have appealed if you thought it was wrong, but you have paid now and their is nothing we can do' - which of course is a false representation and i believe fraud as it is not true, lambeth is perfectly entitled to pay the money back but simply chooses to keep it's ill gotten gains.
The only option i am aware of, if you have already paid and the parking place or fine later turned out to be illegal and the council should have known the pcn was illegal, is to complain to the council and then when they, as they invariably do, state that they have carried out a detailed and thorough investigation and found that you can't have your money back; you then refer the matter onto the Local Government Ombudsman, who amazingly have a team dedicated to dealing with compliants against lambeth council. although it would appear they have no power to reverse the pcn, if lambeth have behaved badly - see only publicised case at:-
http://www.lgo.org.u

k/news/info.php?refn

um=87

compensation can be paid for the trouble they have caused you -In the case above the council appear to have voluntarily offered £150 although I suspect that the LGO would have awarded it were westminster to have stood it's ground like lambeth and played the roles of the three wise monkeys.

maxy, dulwich says...
6:44pm Wed 6 Aug 08

I have a recent letter from Lambeth Council saying they have rejected my Representations on this matter from May 2007 and now I have to go to the Parking and Traffic Appeals service and appeal, so despite the decision for Mr Greatorex Lambeth Council are still going ahead with persuing people for supposedly not 'giving way' at Salters Hill. I hope the Guardian and its readers will give some support to us who are still fighting these ridiculous and flawed alleged offences.

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Give way: This junction caught out thousands of motorists in 128 days of enforcement Give way: This junction caught out thousands of motorists in 128 days of enforcement

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