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Cheam schoolboy 'terrorist' stopped outside Wimbledon station
8:13am Thursday 30th October 2008
Comments (18)A schoolboy taking photographs of a railway station on a geography field trip was suspected of being a terrorist.
Fabian Sabbara, 15, of Cheam, was dressed in his school uniform when he was stopped by three police community support officers for taking photos of Wimbledon station on his mobile phone.
The student from Rutlish High School, Merton, explained he was taking pedestrian counts, a traffic survey and photos as part of a GCSE project.
But PCSO Barry Reeve told Fabian to sign forms under Section 44 of the Terrorism Act, which allows police to stop and search at random anyone they suspect of terrorism.
After the incident, Fabian’s mother Clare, 30, a housewife, and father Felix, 48, an audio visual installer, contacted police to remove any record of the incident against their son’s name, and were told it had to remain in place for six years.
Scotland Yard have since wiped the record from their database, but Mr Sabbara said the incident could have had a long-term impact on Fabian’s future employment.
He said the matter had also sparked fear at Fabian’s school where trips had been banned over concerns that pupils could be stopped by police for taking pictures.
Mr Sabbara said: “Fabian was just a 15-year-old boy trying to do his school work, he had done nothing wrong.
“The point is, if this incident had remained on file it could affect him in years to come when he applies for jobs such as the RAF.
“Also if there was a terrorist attack at Wimbledon station he would be a suspect. It’s just ludicrous. There needs to be more common sense when applying this law.’’ During the incident Fabian, who was part of a small group of some 55 pupils who had split into groups, had to sign a form titled “Stop and Search Terrorism Act”.
Metropolitan Police spokesman Beverley Kassem said officers did not search him and no further action was taken.
She said: “Police have met with the boy, his family and representatives from the school to discuss the incident and reassure them of any concerns they may have.
“As a result of this meeting, schools and police will work closely on future school trips in the area.
“The record of the stop on the stop and search database has been removed.’’ Merton Council cabinet member for children’s services Councillor Debbie Shears said: “We understand this incident has been resolved directly between the police, the school and the pupil’s family.
“School trips are an integral part of a student’s life and we are working with both schools and police to see what sort of guidelines need to be developed and put in to place.”
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mrsmagoos, feltham says...
12:53pm Thu 30 Oct 08
tom000123, Cheam says...
4:07pm Thu 30 Oct 08
ag, mitcham says...
4:45pm Thu 30 Oct 08
Helen.Bak, epsom says...
4:48pm Thu 30 Oct 08
adrianshort, Sutton says...
5:21pm Thu 30 Oct 08
@Tom, the point is that this boy wasn't a terrorist and anybody with half an ounce of common sense can see that.
They can also see the lamentable situation that occurs when anyone taking photos in public has to be considered a security risk.
Assuming the question even needs to be asked:
PCSO: What are you up to?
Boy: Geography field work. My teacher's over there.
PCSO: Fair enough. Have a nice day.
tom000123, Cheam says...
5:45pm Thu 30 Oct 08
adrianshort wrote:"this boy wasn't a terrorist and anybody with half an ounce of common sense can see that."
This boy has learned a very important lesson: we don't live in a free country any longer.
@Tom, the point is that this boy wasn't a terrorist and anybody with half an ounce of common sense can see that.
They can also see the lamentable situation that occurs when anyone taking photos in public has to be considered a security risk.
Assuming the question even needs to be asked:
PCSO: What are you up to?
Boy: Geography field work. My teacher's over there.
PCSO: Fair enough. Have a nice day.
so what exactly does a terrorist look like? turban, dress, a sign that says 'im a terrorist'?
Young people can't be terrorists now?
anyone these days can be a terrorist. rather safe than sorry. simple as.
adrianshort, Sutton says...
6:14pm Thu 30 Oct 08
Anyone could be a terrorist but almost no-one is. That's why we need police and PCSOs with the common sense to realise that 99.999% of the time. people doing innocuous, law-abiding things like taking photos in a public place are exactly what they appear to be, nothing more, nothing less.
You seem to be suggesting that every photographer should be stopped and searched on suspicion of terrorism, because there was nothing else whatsoever in this case to make that PCSO any more suspicious here.
You could stop and search 10,000 schoolboy photographers and still not make the country a safer place.
rroyboy46, ashtead says...
6:58pm Thu 30 Oct 08
kebabking, Stonecot says...
12:09am Fri 31 Oct 08
What does a terrorist look like? I'm pretty sure that there will never be a terrorist that is 15, dressed in school uniform from a good school, part of a group of 54 others, in an opulent suburb of London, with a decent reason for taking pictures and with accredited supervision.
Do you suspect your next door neighbour of being a terrorist when he places a bin close to your house when the dustmen come to collect it? It could contain semtex and although he has lived there for 30 years, he could be a plant.
Good Grief, the citizenry of Cheam has been very much dumbed down since I grew up there.
As for PCSO Barry Reeve, I take it he is NOT a PCSO anymore? If not, why not?
ric, kingston says...
8:50am Fri 31 Oct 08
tom000123 wrote:no tom. you make me laugh. terrorist have been able to ifiltrate ours and other security systems all the time. take 911 for example. the suicide pilots trained to fly with normal people. they passed exams and became qualified pilots.
well it would be a different story to all of you commenting if this child was used by islamic terrorist group and the pcso's dint stop him. Im sure you would be calling for them to be sacked. what if he was doing reconesence for a future attack? u lot make me laugh!
since your so naive i'll tell you that in order to take pictures of public venues you need to get a pass. its not difficult to get. you dont need any qualifications. so had this boy been a terrorist im pretty sure that thats the first thing they would have covered.
secondly its not exactly hard to become a PCSO. so again im sure if a major terrorst threat was planned. every PSCO that aparently could stop this from happening would infact be working for the terrorist organisation. far fetched? i think not.
dont be fooled into thinking that a terrorist attact would actually be stopped by some jobsworth PSCO asking too many questions. because if you do. your very foolish.
im just suprised the real police didnt come down and shoot him 7 times in the head.
Jor, London says...
9:20am Fri 31 Oct 08
GenRant, London says...
2:15pm Fri 31 Oct 08
Shame PCSO's dont wear the brown shirts to match their behaviour. Waste of time space and money these people.
Tom in cheam: so if thats ok to stop people and question them, "just in case they are terrorists"... is it ok for them to smash down your door at 2am drag you away for 3months without trial and search your house "just in case" ? Didnt think so.
Fred1, Surbiton says...
9:21pm Fri 31 Oct 08
Let's get this quite clear. PCSO's are *NOT* there to prevent terrorism. They can't be realistically expected to do anything about organised terrorism, at least not by themselves, anyway.
No, the whole point of the PCSO is to provide a reassuring visible presence on the street for the mostly law-abiding members of society. PCSO's are there to intervene in cases of public disorder; you know, drunkenness, football hooliganism, ram-raids, that sort of thing, to act as the eyes on the ground that call back-up support when things get out of hand. This function is necessary to maintain the wider public's confidence in the policing process - which, in turn is necessary for the police to be able to rely on the public to give them the information and intelligence that leads to the *REAL* terrorism.
So you see, PCSO's *do* have a point - but only if they don't go above their station.
But when PCSO's start hassling people who are participating in perfectly law-abiding activity, and giving grief to children who are only trying to learn stuff, then what does it achieve? All it does is it creates a "them-and-us" situation between the general public and the authorities. And it's this sort of paranoia about the authorities that the terrorists thrive on, because they're able to exploit this paranoia to recruit people to participate in their plots and schemes.
Let's get this into perspective. What about the Google Street View camera cars? Quite a few people have complained about how the Google cars infringe their privacy, not least of all when it catches them in the doorway of a sex shop. If the PCSO's can't stop the Google camera cars, then I don't see why they should be stopping *anyone* with a camera. I honestly don't care whether the photographers are wearing turbans or not.
An attack on public photography is also an attack on photojournalism, and therefore also an attack on freedom of speech.
worcesterpark1, worcester park says...
9:13am Sat 1 Nov 08
rubberdog, wimbledon says...
5:00pm Sun 2 Nov 08
We are constantly monitored & photographed by CCTV yet if a member of the public wishes to take an innocuous picture they can now be strip searched on the platform - god help us.
kebabking, Stonecot says...
9:19pm Mon 3 Nov 08
worcesterpark1 wrote:Not strictly true worcesterpark1. The stop itself would NOT have been singularly authorised. In fact Section 44, as referenced in the article, allows an area to be designated as a stop and search area and anyone in that area can be stopped and searched without the requirement of reasonable suspicion. (how bad is THAT for our liberties by the way!)
Well said Fred1 a balanced view at last. However, I am not sure the PCSO was acting above his remit, someone would have authorised this stop at the police station so he either has authority to carry out these checks or it should have been squashed if he did not! I am sure that most PCSO's do a good job and it seems to me that they are the only visible presence on our streets unless a major incident occurs.
http://tinyurl.com/5
vqlw9
The PCSO was acting within his remit but without ANY remotely believable semblance of common sense. You say that most PCSOs do a good job, this one doesn't fit that criteria I'm afraid. He should be sacked for having a head made of wood.
You said that either he had the authority or it should have been quashed. It's not an either/or scenario, he DID have the authority (scarily) and it WAS quashed. This is a brilliant example of ill thought-out legislation, implemented over-enthusiasticall
y by an police force over-estimating its importance, and implemented on the ground by someone who shouldn't be allowed to be in charge of anything more authoritarian than a whistle.
gashf, Wimbledon says...
12:38pm Fri 7 Nov 08
This PCSO, while maybe not using his common sense, did nothing wrong with this school kid. It was a simple stop and account of why this kid was taking pictures of a major train station which is a route into Central London.The Met insist that on any stop and account or stop and searches that a form 5090 be filled in with the appropriate stop authorities which this one would be section 44 of the Terrorism Act which does not require reasonable grounds. I dont see anything wrong with what the PCSO did, done to the book.
Also the person being stopped is not required to sign the 5090 as stated in the article and does not even have to provide any of his details. Also the fact that he was stopped will in no way hamper any future employment opportunities.
I bet Mr Sabara would not have looked at Shezad Tanweer and his mates as potential bombers on 7/7, so why should his son be treated any different in this war against Terrorism that we fight. Would this article have been dealt with differently if the kid had been muslim in appearance and carrying a large back pack???
I'm sick of whimpering members of the public feeling so hard done by when it comes to how the police etc deal with them. Get over it, it was a stop and account, big deal.e!!
Schoolboy Fabian Sabbara was stopped by police outside Wimbledon station because he was taking photos
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ric, kingston says...
9:56am Thu 30 Oct 08