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'Fear of crime? Blame newspapers,' top cop says

1:28pm Friday 14th March 2008

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Croydon's top policeman has blamed local newspapers like the Croydon Guardian for the fear of crime which is gripping the borough's residents.

According to Borough Commander Mark Gore the stabbings, sexual assaults, shootings and robberies taking place on an almost daily basis across his beat are not to blame.

Chief Superintendent Gore told people at the Croydon Community Police Consultative Group that it was the way those crimes were reported in newspapers which were to blame for the high levels of fear of crime which he and the council are attempting to address.

He was speaking days after a triple stabbing on Shirley's Shrublands estate and weeks after a schoolboy used a pair of scissors to stab a classmate in the head.

His views were also supported by the group's chairman Graham Speed, which raised questions about the panel's supposedly independent status.

Mr Gore's extraordinary outburst upset some community workers who make up the group.

Kathy Bonds, chairman of the Phoenix Community Centre in Upper Norwood, said: "It's ridiculous to blame newspapers for the fear of crime in Croydon, I've never heard anything so absurd."

Mr Gore said after the meeting: "I really do feel passionately about Croydon. I feel there is a tremendous amount of good work going on. "I think what we ask for is fair reporting, both of crime issues and other good things that are going on. "This was just part of an open discussion about how people feel about that."

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Sarah, Surrey says...
2:33pm Fri 14 Mar 08

papers only report whats happening! The fear we have comes from the escalation of violent crime but the police seem more interested in sitting in their cars waiting for someone to drive past on the phone (to earn them money in Fines) or patrolling areas where traffic signals are so missleading they can catch people performing "illegal" manouvers (earning money in fines)etc etc. The real criminals are the rapists, muggers, burglars & Murderers who DO exist in our borough! & the even greater fear is, should they be caught, The courts let them off with a slapped wrist! That has nothing to do with reporting of the facts & everything to do with lack of respect for the law abidding population in Surrey!

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ANNE GILES, selsdon says...
3:17pm Fri 14 Mar 08

I was at that meeting and I don't know who those upset community workers were at that group, because I never heard them speak up. I heard everyone else speak up against negative reporting, though. Compared with other boroughs, there is very little crime in Croydon and it is a wonderful place to work and live in. I have lived in many other areas - Bromley, Chelsey, Islington, Sutton, Sydenham, Camberwell, Beckenham, Romford - but I will certainly never move away from Croydon now. We have wonderful shops - Allders, House of Fraser, a fantastic library, theatres, cinemas, concert hall, golf courses, lovely parks to walk our dogs, children;s play areas, pedestrianised areas, cafes with tables and chairs outside, restaurants of every nationality serving exciting food and drink. I have visited towns up North which are great for tourists, except on Saturday nights, when there is a lot of crime - but crime in Croydon is nowhere near as high. We have a wonderful police force, Safer Neighbourhood Teams, Neighbourhood Enforcement Officers. We also have an excellent Council. I teach in Adult Education here and I love it. So - please - no more of these ridiculous negative comments - I think some of you are quite blind.

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Bob Peel, Croydon says...
4:16pm Fri 14 Mar 08

"His views were also suppoted by the group's chairman Graham Speed, which raised questions about the panel's supposedly independent status."

Mr Gore needs to go out in Croydon in plain clothes on his own, travel on bus, train and tram and then we'll see if he still feels the same.

As for Graham Speed, I have no doubt he sat there nodding and offering the approval from the Divine Right of Speed.

The entire Group, funded by public money is a total waste of financial and police resources. That these persons can influence policing, when they nothing about it, is very worrying.

Less crime in Croydon than that perceived? Quick duck, there goes another flight of pigs over the Borough.


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Dave, Shirley says...
4:16pm Fri 14 Mar 08

ANNE GILES wrote:
I was at that meeting and I don't know who those upset community workers were at that group, because I never heard them speak up. I heard everyone else speak up against negative reporting, though. Compared with other boroughs, there is very little crime in Croydon and it is a wonderful place to work and live in. I have lived in many other areas - Bromley, Chelsey, Islington, Sutton, Sydenham, Camberwell, Beckenham, Romford - but I will certainly never move away from Croydon now. We have wonderful shops - Allders, House of Fraser, a fantastic library, theatres, cinemas, concert hall, golf courses, lovely parks to walk our dogs, children;s play areas, pedestrianised areas, cafes with tables and chairs outside, restaurants of every nationality serving exciting food and drink. I have visited towns up North which are great for tourists, except on Saturday nights, when there is a lot of crime - but crime in Croydon is nowhere near as high. We have a wonderful police force, Safer Neighbourhood Teams, Neighbourhood Enforcement Officers. We also have an excellent Council. I teach in Adult Education here and I love it. So - please - no more of these ridiculous negative comments - I think some of you are quite blind.
& some of you are obviously "Hyacinth Bucket" - living in a world totally removed from the truth!

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George Dixon, Croydon says...
4:23pm Fri 14 Mar 08

This is just nonsense.

Bring Vicki Marr back ASAP - she was harmless; this latest one is a mistake waiting to happen IMHO.

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ANNE GILES, SELSDON says...
4:31pm Fri 14 Mar 08

Vicki Marr didn't communicate. Mark Gore does. As for saying that I live in a world totally removed from the truth - that is rubbish. Unlike Mr. and Mrs. Average, who go to work and come home and watch TV, I am out and about in different parts of the Borough most of the time (except when I am asleep). As for using public transport, I am sure Mark Gore and many of the other officers do use the train. So do I. I had a lovely journey into London today and back on our nice new trains - very comfortable.

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UncleBoko, Selsdon says...
6:30pm Fri 14 Mar 08

Sarah's post is as stupid as the paper's peabrained reporters who write such nonsence.

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Jean, Tooting says...
7:01pm Fri 14 Mar 08

I always thought Anne lived on another planet now it has been confirmed

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ANNE GILES, selsdon says...
10:12pm Fri 14 Mar 08

What on earth has someone living in Tooting got to do with Croydon?

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a real person, not a cop, sutton says...
9:07am Sat 15 Mar 08

facts are facts, i'm glad the papers let us know what's going on. i can see, hear, and feel this crime on my doorstep. i wish it was made up but sadly it isn't. just because i've been lucky to not bear any of it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. a friend of mine who was walking home from work was beaten and had his jaw broken in random attack at 9pm on sutton high street. he was alone, minding his own business, and for no reason 3 young guys jumped him for a laugh. didn't even rob him. he didn't report it to the police because the police will not bother. we don't feel like the police will protect us so we don't rely on them. this inocent guy just went to the hospital, got treatment, then went back to work a few days later. shame, but it's not isolated. seems good guys get it and roaming animals get away with it. we have to shut ourselves in after a certain hour and they take the streets. if cops were on a beat like the good old days then maybe thugs wouldn't be so blatant...they do it because they know that they can get away with it and no police will be anywhere near to stop them. a policeman would never understand, he has a badge and cop car to keep him safer. the ordinary middle class guy is the one who feels the fear. he's the one worrying about his children walking home from school. his wife on a bus. his life when coming home after dark at night.

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SV, Croydon says...
9:22am Sat 15 Mar 08

Mr Gore should fix the problem then. He is the borough commander, yet all I see him doing is having his photo taken.

Central Croydon is a no go area after 3pm because of the gangs. The police go home - probably afraid.

The BID (businesses in Central Croydon) are so concerned they are paying EXTRA for another town centre team.

This is not acceptable. The town should be safe without extra police being 'bought' in.

Ken Livingstone has put up our council tax to pay for a huge increase in police numbers.

What has Mark Gore done with them????

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Realist, Croydon says...
9:51am Sat 15 Mar 08

Anne Giles said "...there is very little crime in Croydon and it is a wonderful place to work and live in. ... golf courses, lovely parks to walk our dogs, children;s play areas ... "

Do you also see 4 colourful, chubby little fellows with strange symbols on their heads, Anne?

It looks like you've confused Croydon with Telly Tubbies, Anne.

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Mike Melbourne, Ex _Croydon says...
11:15am Sat 15 Mar 08

I would agree that poor reporting gives a lopside view of crime levels,and both the papers and the broadcasters fail to give the full facts about crime levels and go for the figures that may have increased and ignore the figures that show an improvement.

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Sarah, Surrey says...
11:24am Sat 15 Mar 08

ANNE GILES wrote:
Vicki Marr didn't communicate. Mark Gore does. As for saying that I live in a world totally removed from the truth - that is rubbish. Unlike Mr. and Mrs. Average, who go to work and come home and watch TV, I am out and about in different parts of the Borough most of the time (except when I am asleep). As for using public transport, I am sure Mark Gore and many of the other officers do use the train. So do I. I had a lovely journey into London today and back on our nice new trains - very comfortable.
I like being "Ms Average", I like being at work & contributing to society & I would also like to think that my contributing & being a citizen affords me some protection from Violent crime! Reporting of these incidents is not what worries me, as I said - its the fear of the police not bothering to work on "hard to solve" crimes or even when they do, the penalties handed out by the courts are totally inadequate! Anne Giles, Are you for real? Your comments are illinformed, argumentative, snobby & stuck-up. I am sooooo Glad you do not count yourself as being like me! I'm happy to be Ms Average!

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Steve, London says...
11:29am Sat 15 Mar 08

Decent people in Croydon can fight back! Crime is solved using facts and information. If anyone knows of those who are in one Croydons criminal gangs, selling drugs, carrying knives, assaulting people, shoplifting, comitting burglaries etc. Then report them either over the phone or on the internet to the Metropolitan Police (Safer Neighbourhood Policing anonymous form) or Crimestoppers Web Site/ Phone line! Even the DVLA have an anonymous form on the internet to report Cars without Tax being used on the road. So report these people who make everyones life a nightmare!!

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Jean, Tooting says...
1:14pm Sat 15 Mar 08

I take an interest in Croydon because my daughter lives there with her husband and children,Anne, so I think I can give an opinion. Try telling Linda Bowman that Croydon is a safe place to live.

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ANNE GILES, SELSDON says...
1:30pm Sat 15 Mar 08

I cannot understand how anyone can say that Croydon is unsafe after 3 p.m. I am often there at 3 p.m., 4 p.m., 5 p.m., and I see nothing untoward happening. Also - many of you say you don't report things because you imagine police can't be bothered. They can only be bothered IF YOU REPORT THINGS. How are they supposed to know what goes on if you keep silent? Your Safer Neighbourhood Team has an e-mail address and a 'phone number. Whatever you see or hear should be sent on to them. If a child tells you that a shop is selling alcohol or cigarettes to underage children, then report it. If you see graffiti, report it. If information about any illegal activity comes your way - it is your duty to report it. Police DO want to know. It is up to all of us to be community minded and to help one another and to help the police, instead of moaning non-stop on these posts.

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Kes, Upper Norwood says...
1:59pm Sat 15 Mar 08

Ann Giles, like members of the current government, seems to be in a state of denial.

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Realist, Croydon says...
2:14pm Sat 15 Mar 08

Back to 'Laa-Laa' (or Tinky-Winky?) land is it, Anne?

As long as everything's nice and safe and 'comfy' in your world then it must be okay everywhere must it?

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ANNE GILES, SELSDON says...
4:19pm Sat 15 Mar 08

Well, my husband and I were in the main shopping area in Selsdon this p.m., when we came across our hard working Sergeants from the Heathfield and Selsdon SN teams, along with several other officers and they told us they were heading along towards a gang to disperse them and make a couple of arrests. Police presence is always visible in our area and they are obviously doing their jobs properly. The rest of you seem to be blind.

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North Borough, Croydon says...
6:34pm Sat 15 Mar 08

Well Anne, as I have previously stated there are huge differences between the South of Croydon and the North.I visited Croydon town centre today, not through choice, something I normally avoid. Today I was reminded of why I avoid it. I can understand why we never see a policeman in my area because they are all needed there! You state that you spend most of your time out and about in the borough except when sleeping. Obviously your many comments are added when in a dream like state. This is not meant as apersonal attack but Jo Public do report crimes and misdemeanours. Maybe because the police have such a huge task at hand "petty" crime is not dealt with. This is why people object to Mr Gores' comments.I personally feel the nespapers do not always report on crime enough. It is there, it is happening, we do need to read about it and be aware of the environment we live in. Being a parent, I want to know if an area is relatively safe for my child to visit or who they should mix with. The police are trying to do a good job but you know what they say about silk purses. Maybe Gordon and his chums should spend more time looking at what is going on rather than shopping trips to John Lewis!

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Kes, Upper Norwood says...
8:06pm Sat 15 Mar 08

We should all move to Selsdon. Perhaps not, though, because Selsdon's time is coming! There comes a time when the suburbs become part of the whole(as regards crime). I feel sorry for those who have no choice but to stay put.

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TIME FOR CHANGE, USELESS CROYDON POLICE says...
8:17pm Sat 15 Mar 08

Of course the local paper should report crime issues. As a general rule it is what concerns people the most. The local paper is also important to let people know how to assist the police. It is not a publicity tool for the police who already waste vast sums of money on advertising. I noted a recent article said the Met spent something like £22,000 for every community support officer recruited. How on earth can that be justified?

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Kes, Upper Norwood says...
9:49pm Sat 15 Mar 08

We have a government which doesn't care two hoots for the indigenous population. But, then, why should they when it's votes that count.

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ANNE GILES, SELSDON says...
11:19pm Sat 15 Mar 08

I wonder what word has been blanked out of jon's post? I suspect he is a racist and racism is one of the nastiest crimes on this planet.

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Pancho, Thornton Heath says...
6:10am Sun 16 Mar 08

So our unseen Chief Police officer Mr Gore blames the press for creating the fear of crime in Croydon...Why is it that he failes to go out with his own(our) Police Beat officers as past chief of Croydon Police did.
He is only ever seen in the press with a big SMILE on but fails time and time again to see for himself the crimes taking place in Croydon-especialy in the North of our Bourough!!!!
As for Mr Speeds chairmanship of the CCPPC is a farce he is in the pockets of the Council and the Police when he should be acting as an independant factual voice and the sooner he departs for pasters new the better!!!!
What we nead is MORE reporting of Crime in our papers and our Police acting again as criminal catchers not social workers, and putting more criminals befor the courts.
The fact is that the only people who have NO FEAR OF CRIME in Croydon are the Criminals.

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ANNE GILES, SELSDON says...
3:18pm Sun 16 Mar 08

What a load of rubbish - and, by the way, pasters is not a word. It should be "pastures". Spelling, please!!

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ARABELLA HAMILTON FORTESCUE, south croydon says...
3:24pm Sun 16 Mar 08

No - we don't need more reporting of crime in the newspapers - we need nice stories. It is only the very uneducated who seem to thrive on tabloid drivel. This is why they watch silly soaps on TV instead of reading a good book or going out to the cinema, theatre or a decent concert - or doing something helpful in the community such as Neighbourhood Watch. We don't want Mark Gore walking the streets - we need him in his office doing what he is paid to do. Nothing wrong with Graham Speed either. Now stop writing such utter drivel.

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Pancho'2, Central Croydon says...
5:05pm Sun 16 Mar 08

AHF
needs to get her facts strait...its not only the Tabloid
who are against the policing of crime in Croydon and london as a whole us odinery ratepayers housholders and our youngsters who are also afraid of going out at night...the police including Mr Gore should go out on our streets and make them safe again...Mr Gore already spends most of his time in his office and has no idea of what his police are up to when they go out on a beat...if they in fact do so now..having left this task to the overpaid PSCO's who do nothing but quote the health & Safty regulations...
the police are themselves frigtend to patrol alone...when was the last time you or anyone have seen a single(I dont mean an unmared pc on the beat...if they are afraid to walk the walk alone what about Us...?

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Arfur Towcrate, Staffycher says...
5:05pm Sun 16 Mar 08

Graham Speed and Mark Gore are out of touch.

A violent robbery took place at the end of my street a few months ago - it has not been mentioned in the local press, despite police involvement.

Yes, fear of crime can run ahead of actual crime levels. But the almost daily reports of shootings, stabbings and beatings and the tally of 26+ teenage deaths last year in London make you realise things are very bad indeed.

Press censorship and giving things a positive spin won't help matters - tackling crime effectively will.


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Realist, Croydon says...
5:06pm Sun 16 Mar 08

Well, ARABELLA, let's hope they don't damage your rose-tinted spectacles as beat you mercilessly to take your chattels from you. Let's pretend everything's fine in sunny Croydon - or do you live in Teletubbyland with ANNE?

Is it a coincidence that both you, ARABELLA HAMILTON FORTESCUE, and ANNE GILES, SELSDON feel the need to capitalise your names? Latent inferiority complexes perhaps?

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Kes, Upper Norwood says...
5:45pm Sun 16 Mar 08

We can take comfort that Croydon has not yet reached the depths of certain inner London boroughs but it's only a matter of time. Our politicians certainly have a lot to answer for.

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Croyboy, says...
6:45pm Sun 16 Mar 08

ANNE GILES wrote:
racism is one of the nastiest crimes on this planet

Oh? You'd preferred to be mugged or stabbed, you mean?


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Kes, Upper Norwood says...
9:08pm Sun 16 Mar 08

common sense wrote:
Croyboy wrote: ANNE GILES wrote:
racism is one of the nastiest crimes on this planet
Oh? You\'d preferred to be mugged or stabbed, you mean?
With generalized comments like that it is no wonder that so many of the people you refer to refuse to call themselves english, yet what colour are most serial killers & paedophiles?
What are you doing then other than generalizing? Perhaps we should all move to leafy Surrey then we'd all be happy. Or Selsdon?

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June, Croydon says...
9:13pm Sun 16 Mar 08

I have lived in North and South Croydon for many years, and have definitely seen an increase in antisocial behaviour. I see violent altercations in the afternoon on the High Street, and school children behaving like animals.
Never mind the police, where are their parents?
Anne - have you been on a bus with school kids, and they are cattle trucks not lovely trains.


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Jack, Croydon says...
11:29pm Sun 16 Mar 08

Having lived in Brixton my whole life,i moved to Croydon a year ago thinking things might be a bit less hectic than i was used to,i always used to enjoy shopping in Croydon and like Anne Giles points out,seems to have its fair share of amenities.
However,i am totally shocked,appauled and sickened to the bottom of my stomach of what i have witnessed and experienced. I am the father of a 12 year old with autism and my son will no longer go out the front door by himself. I live in the part of North Croydon which backs onto Mitcham and Thornton Heath which is an area of "MASS SOCIAL DEPRAIVATION" as described in an "Ofsted" school report about the main school in the area,so just who is Anne Giles trying to kid, I can tell you,in one year within 1 mile of my house there have been 2 murders on the victims doorsteps,a rape in the supposed lovely park,several high profile robberies and frequent muggings and beatings among the youth that far outstrip anything i experienced whilst living in Brixton.
In addition,i have had a confession from a local community support officer that crime is getting worse and spiralling out of control as is the behaviour in all Croydons schools.
Unlike Brixton,where the police appear to have a very firm grip on public order AND DO NOT LIE about the problems that exist,Croydon epitomises everything that exists in Broken Britain at the moment.
Its not just the crime,its the standards which are appauling. Anne Giles should just talk a walk down the Mitcham Road and smell the air and the foul stench of the drains which are the councils responsibilty but they have managed to blame on a sewer nearby. So why do the drains fill up and flood the street after fairly normal downpours of rain? Anybody who lives in the area will confirm this awful cover up and the disease that is spreading. Me and my son now have reactive arthiritis following a severe stomach infection caught from the drains as shigella bacteria is present as confirmed by medical tests and more people in the area discovering that they have also been diagnosed with this.
Special Educational Needs are diabolical in the schools,my son has been assaulted 5 times in lessons (one occaision quite seriously,and i have to rely on him to inform me whats really going on in the school.
What i`m getting at is that there is a huge cover up by the staff to inform parents of the reality of how grim the normal levels of behaviour have become in Croydons classrooms. I`ve even been blatently lied too by a deputy head and guess what? Just like Anne Giles,you hear the same rubbish of how sunny and marvellous everything is in Croydon. The reality is its a breeding ground for the next wave of crime thats going to bite them all back,every single day i hear of more shocking incidents that are just hushed up and blamed onto something else,just like Mr Gore`s comments,blamestormi

ng and no relevance to the problem at hand and no protection to the public whatsoever from the "soon to be out of control" levels of crime.
For the record Anne Giles,Croydon is officially a blackspot in the UK,with banks having to adopt the highest level of security for fraud. Just check your facts and figures about the recent survey of confidence in local Councils in the UK,Croydon which is right down the bottom of the list in terms of satisfaction.
Just who exactly is blind Anne Giles? You should hang around Croydon just a bit longer on a Friday evening to see the queue of ambulances lined up ready to ferry off the first of the injured,then you should visit the Mayday to see the appauling injuries and how shocking life really is around here.
Funny enough,i have a friend who really is blind,and he turned down a move to Croydon due to its diabolical reputation for assistance to blind and disabled people in general.
Its ok for me as i`ll be moving out from here soon for the sake of my sons future and happiness,but we will never forget the horrific experience,never have i felt so unsafe or let down. It seriously needs sorting out.

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Julie, Mitcham Road says...
11:55pm Sun 16 Mar 08

Well said Jack,North Croydon is the armpit of London and treated as such by the council and police. The youth around this way are behaving like wild animals and getting away with it,and i see the Community Support Officers walking way from large gangs,they just don`t want the aggravation and are not equipped to deal with the problems. Police response times are ridiculously slow and rarely is any crime prevented,you don`t see any police when you need them round here,its a myth. I presume all the police are in Sanderstead and Selsdon as Anne Giles points out. She is typical of the "I`m alright Jack,pull the ladder up brigade" in Croydon. Double Standards for those in the more affluent areas. As a teacher,you should know better than to start telling people to go to the opticians,obviously you lack professionalism and are truly blinkered yourself. I think you are going to regret calling us all blind.

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ric, kingston says...
8:46am Mon 17 Mar 08

going to the moon. brb

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Croyboy, says...
8:47am Mon 17 Mar 08

ANNE GILES wrote:
God created us all...

Anne, what makes you think that I or others automatically subscribe to your commitment to believing in myth and superstition? Furthermore it forces one to have reservations about your intellectual capacity, and therefore to entertain doubts about your pronouncements.

we see police around all the time.

Speak for yourself: I've never seen a copper (on foot) "around" my area.



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Dave, Croydon says...
9:07am Mon 17 Mar 08

Well done Gorey you idiot! In one staggeringly stupid move you make the entire of Croydon borough police look like gutless cowards trying to shift the blame for the rise of crime rather than saying what's on the publics lips "if the judges would lock the scum up when they do something wrong then they would fear the justice system" I'm a cop in croydon, I don't ticket people for minor traffic offences or target soft options like motorists on their phones. I arrest robbers, rapists theives and Chavs. I stop and search the hoodies that are causing the fear and if you do that enough they find something else to do. (all stops are justified with grounds)It's this sort of robust policing a town like croydon needs. Not some whiner who puts in an appearance twice a week to make sure the local press hate our guts and can pass that animosity on to the public. So, really, well done mark. If it wasn't for senior officers like you there'd probably be some morale in the MET. If the met would scrap PCSO's and spend the money on real police then you'd see a difference. All they can do is call the police, correct me if i'm wrong but the public do that for free.

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Dave, Croydon says...
9:07am Mon 17 Mar 08

Well done Gorey you idiot! In one staggeringly stupid move you make the entire of Croydon borough police look like gutless cowards trying to shift the blame for the rise of crime rather than saying what's on the publics lips "if the judges would lock the scum up when they do something wrong then they would fear the justice system" I'm a cop in croydon, I don't ticket people for minor traffic offences or target soft options like motorists on their phones. I arrest robbers, rapists theives and Chavs. I stop and search the hoodies that are causing the fear and if you do that enough they find something else to do. (all stops are justified with grounds)It's this sort of robust policing a town like croydon needs. Not some whiner who puts in an appearance twice a week to make sure the local press hate our guts and can pass that animosity on to the public. So, really, well done mark. If it wasn't for senior officers like you there'd probably be some morale in the MET. If the met would scrap PCSO's and spend the money on real police then you'd see a difference. All they can do is call the police, correct me if i'm wrong but the public do that for free.

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jilly, croydon says...
9:44am Mon 17 Mar 08

i find it strange that the loudest voice in defense of croydon as the paradise borough of london is one anne giles. yet, search out her name on this site and countless others and you'll find she is a regular curtain twitcher constantly moaning about the youth in her area throwing stones etc etc. she is also the person who constantly promotes argentina as another heaven on earth destination. clearly a very confused woman.

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Bob Peel, Croydon says...
1:43pm Mon 17 Mar 08

One thing: Take a look at the image of Mr Gore on the microphone.

Look at those staring eyes ---- do they belong to a person in control of his faculties who enjoys his work?

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JohnDoe, surrey says...
8:47am Wed 19 Mar 08

@ANNE GILES
I fear everyone may have been too hard on Anne. It must be particularly hard for the old dear, especially being the propoganda mouthpiece of Croydon Police. She is not in living on a cloud or in Teletubby land she is simply clutching at straws. It is my belief that she is probably an employee of either the council or the police that is trying to paint an altogether different picture of Croydon life. It is getting worse, there is lawlessness on the streets and people are rightly afraid because their police force spends more on gimmicks and rent-a-cops than they do proper police work, C.I.D not included of course, they are proper coppers.

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patricia dennis, surrey says...
3:29pm Wed 19 Mar 08

Except she isn't old. She is someone I know well and she doesn't work for either the Council or the police. S

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billy, croydon says...
4:22pm Wed 19 Mar 08

she isn't old. she doesn't work for either the Council or the police
fair enough. however she IS very, very confused.

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Sarah, Surrey says...
9:25am Thu 20 Mar 08

patricia dennis wrote:
Except she isn't old. She is someone I know well and she doesn't work for either the Council or the police. S
She may not be old or work for the authorities, but she is totally out of touch with th reality of life today. I should imagine Ms Giles has never had to scrimp & scrape like some of us do (without rellying on benefits, before you start!),I bet she hasnt lived on an estate where you have 5 deadbolts on your door & grills behind your windows! The problem with Anne giles & the people like her, is that they form opinions & even worse, some of her kind get into power & form governments! without ever actually living in the places she writes about! Oh & let me say that by "living in", I dont mean sitting in you 3 bed semi, curtaintwitching! I mean actually living on a housing estate, working in a supermarket/fast food place & having to take your life in your hands every time you want to venture out after dark! Come & live in the real world!

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patricia dennis, surrey says...
9:52am Thu 20 Mar 08

This sounds very much like inverted snobbery. So if someone takes the trouble to study rather than leave school early in order to earn some cash and go boyfriend hunting - is that not a real world? If someone works really hard in order to earn enough to buy their own home - is that not the real world too? If someone chooses not to have children, but to carry on earning - can that also not be considered the real world? Life is about making choices - and we all make them. You can never assume that someone lives in a 3 bed semi or a detached house, or a castle even, or that they have time to peer out through their curtains (usually the activity of someone who is at home, rather than working). Neither can you assume that the person has never struggled or ever had to scrimp and scrape. You appear to be suffering from the most extraordinary prejudices based on pure imagination. Nobody ever knows how anyone else lives or what they have been through during the course of their lives. I have a friend who was abused and beaten as a child, suffered an abusive marriage, ended up living in one room, escaping and moving from place to place - yet that very same person is now earning a good salary and living in an extremely nice house in a lovely part of this Borough.

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Sarah, Surrey says...
5:24pm Thu 20 Mar 08

LOL, @ patricia dennis. How can you accuse me of inverted snobbery? I didnt know any of that about Anne Giles, I have formed an opinion of this person from the posts they have made throughout this site. I dont care where she lives, what she does for a living, her marital/family status or indeed whether she has been publicly schooled! What I do care about is her sweeping statements on this site on numerous stories, belittling Single Parents, labeling all teenagers as thiefs & trash. If it suits her, she has on Rose tinited spectacles when it comes to the "local Authorities" & the Constabulary in some stories (as above) yet on others she complains that the police do not do enough to move teenagers on!. My point was, if you want to make a difference, learn something about the issue you want to address. Dont just moan about it & offer sweeping statements. Anne Giles, as you Patricia Dennis, have just totally proved, has NO idea about the real world. Also the "I have a friend who's been abused/who is black/who does drugs/ who is disabled/ who is a single parent" comment, makes me sick! Why is it people think that sort of comment gives them the right to say whatever they like? Its biggotry of the worst kind.

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JOSHUA LITTLEJOHN, London says...
5:43pm Thu 20 Mar 08

Ignore this Sarah person. Her Mummy obviously isn't aware that she is using her computer to vent out all her frustrations. She pretends that someone is criticising police and teenagers on other posts - I think she misunderstands what the person has actually said. Perhaps lessons in reading are necessary. No "A" level there, I am afraid.

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Uncleboko, Selsdon says...
10:01am Fri 21 Mar 08

This Sarah poster really has a problem which is clearly sourced from her Eastenders/Coronatio
n Street induced hangups and insincere sincerity I'd wager! A very stupid lady indeed.

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EB, Croydon says...
7:02pm Sat 22 Mar 08

In response to Anne Giles' previous comment about 'being out and about in Croydon past 3pm', I would like to say: I am a 16 year old student who comes home through Croydon every night at around 4pm. It is not a pleasant experience, as the town centre and buses are usually filled with gangs. Anne also says that she has previously lived in Sutton amongst other boroughs but will 'never leave Croydon'. I attend a grammar school in Wallington and would love to live in Sutton; the schools are better, there are good local amenities and a strong police presence. Maybe Anne would like to visit other parts of the borough of Croydon before giving her opinion.

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patricia dennis, surrey says...
11:34pm Sat 22 Mar 08

Well, I do know her, and she used to live in Thornton Heath, and then later on just round the corner from Selhurst Station. I know many people who are in Croydon at 4 p.m. and feel quite safe. The word "gang" does not mean "bad" - it means a group of people, and all the gangs I myself have seen in the centre of Croydon at 4 p.m. have been teenage students - all behaving themselves. Other friends my age say the same. It may well be that you, as a 16 year old, feel differently. It isn't because it is unsafe, it is because you, personally, feel unsafe, and if the newspapers didn't keep sensationalising crime, you would feel perfectly safe.

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EB, Croydon says...
12:01pm Sun 23 Mar 08

I am perfectly aware that the word 'gang' is not a synonym for 'bad' but what I was trying to say is the reason I feel unsafe in Croydon is beacause Croydon is an unsafe area: I have seen various fights in the town centre at around 4pm, I have had my phone stolen from my pocket on the bus home and I have heard various reports of rapes and murders in my local area. It is a newspaper's job to report news that has happened in the area; for them to report it, it must have happened, surely? This is also apparent in the number of yellow police information boards that I see in my local area. Newspapers aren't necessarily 'sensationalising' crime, they are reporting what is happening in Croydon.

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Bob Peel, Croydon says...
3:56pm Sun 23 Mar 08

Perhaps Mr Gore might like to reveal the contents of his note book for the lat week and the compare them with the contents of a PC and a PCSO in a SNT in the North of the Borough. Then we'll see who's doing the work.
Mr Mark Gore = sinecure.

The best Borough Commander Croydon had was Ch Supt Bill Johnson , He had been station sergeant at Croydon and worked his way up via DM ending up a Detective Ch Supt in CIB2 investigating the death of Blair Peach.

No degree, just a good understanding of coppering, men and crime. Not so todays' senior officers. The paperwork trail is splendid - just a pity the crime/policing activity is so useless.

It's not the papers Mr Gore, it's the inability of senior officers from Commissioner down who don't have the guts to say to the PM/Home Secretary "This *is* how the job will be done. It's about keeping the public safe, not meeting targets to make politicians look good."

Unfortunately they don't have the guts.

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patricia dennis, surrey says...
4:37pm Sun 23 Mar 08

What a very nasty, horrible thing to say. This sounds like working class envy. There is nothing wrong with landing a well paid job if one has a degree. Every single organisation needs men/women at the top and every single organisation also needs people who do sit at their desks. Being able to use one's brains and think is very valuable indeed. If Mr. Gore were to spend his time walking the streets, he wouldn't be able to do the other useful things he does. England seems to be a place choc-a-bloc full of envious working class people who think they should be at the top. Let's have our local milman as Prime Minister, then, shall we?? Or our dustman?? Painter and decorator? Builder? A country full of "Oi, 'ello mate" people - in charge?????

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JOSHUA LITTLEJOHN, LONDON says...
4:51pm Sun 23 Mar 08

EB - we all understand your fears. You are only 16, and do not have an adult's experience. Yes - newspapers need to report crime, as well as reporting good things. But you need to understand that crime is not happening everywhere, all the time. Only a few events - and you behave as though these few are thousands - and everywhere!! OK - you have seen various fights in the town centre at around 4 p.m. I have visited Croydon on a number of occasions and walked through the town centre at 4 p.m. - and seen no fights. So you are multiplying what you see into thousands!! You have heard reports of various murders and rapes in your area. This sounds like idle gossip to me. We all hear things - and each person passes the information on grossly exaggerated. I once told my mother that my wife and I had had a row. She then rang all my siblings up and told them we were separating! You had something stolen on a bus. Most buses to and from the various schools have PCSOs present on them. Instead of complaining on this site, you need to contact your local Safer Neighbourhood Team. Speak to them about your concerns. They will help. Believe me.

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North Borough, says...
5:38pm Sun 23 Mar 08

Patricia, I think the point Bob was making is that people who have worked their way up to the top, rather than going straight there with a dgree, tend to have a far better idea of the reality of the job. Your snobbery amazes me when these days higher education is encouraged by all. (remember that grocers daughter not so long ago!)If Bob would let me know when he is standing for election I'll vote for him as his ideas about life are far more in tune with mine than the jumped up pen-pushers about these days.

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EB, Croydon says...
5:55pm Sun 23 Mar 08

In response to Joshua's comment: yes, I may only be 16 and therefore 'lacking an adult's experience' but I was trying to explain that I do have the experience, because it has happened to me. No, there is not a fight every time I am in Croydon town centre but there have been, thus proving that there is crime in Croydon. You say that the murders and rapes that I have heard about in my area are 'idle gossip.' This information has come from yellow boards, or in a recent case, from a police officer when there was a murder around the corner to my house. I was not aware that police had taken to spreading gossip - so surely these incidences must have happened? In response to your comment about PCSOs on bus route to and from school; I regularly see PCSOs on the journey home - when I am still in the borough of Sutton. The incident I am talking about happened in Thornton Heath, where I have never seen a PCSO on the bus route home. My understanding of PCSOs is that they are meant to be on the streets in an attempt to prevent crime; however, after attending a recent music event in the area, my friends and I were told to wait for our parents in a deserted car park around the corner to the venue where there is very little lighting. This was at 10 o'clock at night. If this is the type of thing PCSOs are telling young people to do, would they really be useful on a bus route home?

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JOSHUA LITTLEJOHN, LONDON says...
10:25pm Sun 23 Mar 08

In that case, EB, I would urge you to contact the Thornton Heath Safer Neighbourhood Team with your concerns. Tel.Nos. 07843-291138 or 020-8721-2058. They work shifts, so you can leave a message. Alternatively, you might be better off sending an e-mail for the attention of the Sergeaht. Write to ThorntonHeath.snt@me
t.police.uk and they should reply. A lot of people complain, but the only way to get things done is to contact the teams and tell them you are not happy.

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patricia dennis, surrey says...
10:31pm Sun 23 Mar 08

North Borough - you mean you would vote for a man riddled with hang-ups and envy??? Every organisation needs its pen-pushers - unfortunately, the less educated in this society do not understand that. Also - a person with a degree has gained that degree because of a very good brain and an ability to think. If you read some of the drivel on these posts, you will be able to count the number of people with nothing much in their heads. Also - how do you know that the people with degrees didn't first work as Constables? Many of them have. Information previously shown on their web site did list everything they had done before their promotions.

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North borough, says...
11:27am Mon 24 Mar 08

Patricia, in all of Bob's comments, I have missed the hang-ups he appears to have, maybe I need a degree to see them!Envy, yes,possibly for a previous life when society had better values, reasonable discipline, etc. I question the intelligence needed to gain a degree, as I have long since favoured common sense over apparent intelligence. I do not consider myself to be uneducated, indeed I do have various qualifications, just not a degree.As to your remark on the need for pen-pushers, I quite agree. Unfortunately snobby attitudes have prevented people becoming apprentices for worthwhile jobs in carpentry, plumbing etc. They feel a degree in "media studies" is far better. This doesn't mean to say that people in manual jobs are not worthy of a career in politics. The local dustman may see plenty of life and could also read a few books, maybe even have a few opinions. This may make him a better candidate for making decisions, rather than some fresh faced graduate who has seen nothing of life.I will endeavour to read Mr. Gores C.V. but I imagine this will not mention the fact that his mouth went into action before his brilliant brain as regards newspapers causing the fear. My fear of living in Croydon has never been fuelled by the press merely through living the life. Whilst not expecting to see him walking the streets, I would like to see the odd P.C. wandering around every once in a while.

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patricia dennis, surrey says...
1:10pm Mon 24 Mar 08

But I can't understand why you can't see the PCs wandering around. The Safer Neighbourhood Teams work shifts. If they are on in the morning, they won't be on at night, and vice versa. They may be on one week-end, but not the other. However, when they are on duty in every single part of the Borough, they do go out and about. They may not walk past your house. I, and other friends of mine, have seen them accompanying children to and from school on the buses, in Selsdon, Sanderstead, Heathfield, Fairfield - near East Croydon Station, North of the Borough, and in the town Centre. They can be seen near the Whitgift Centre, and inside it, in St. George's Walk. It's just that you are obviously not out and about that often, so you don't see them.
Mr. Gore is right, though, about newspapers causing fear. People read about crime, and then imagine it is happening everywhere, all the time. This is because the average person does NOT have a very brilliant brain. I would NOT want a Borough Commander with a shaven head, earring in the ear, covered in tattoos, bad spelling or an accent which no-one could understand. I prefer what we have now. Thank you. We need pen pushers who can make decisions and delegate. For that one needs a good command of the English language. 'Nuff said.

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Dr. Ahmed Al-Fatah, Croydon says...
9:04pm Mon 24 Mar 08

I have been reading all these posts with some interest, because it seems to me that the majority of people making negative comments do not deserve to have a police force at all. You want more police officers, yet you make it quite plain that any unfortunate person who trains to work for the police is going to not only a) tackle some nasty criminals, but b) be criticised left, right and centre by you people. Better off working in an office, with no risk of being injured or killed. If you praise people and thank them for the work they do, then they are happy to carry on doing it. If you continually criticise in a negative fashion (constructive criticism is always useful) then they cannot possibly want to help you. I have already managed to diagnose several personality disorders here. Perhaps a good dose of Prozac might help some of you. As an example - if I ask my wife to do 5 things - and she only does 4, I never remind her of what she has failed to do, but thank her for the things she has done. Now may I suggest that you do the same with our wonderful police force!!!

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Sarah, Surrey says...
2:31pm Tue 25 Mar 08

I despair at the bigotry & hatred some of the people on here spout. How you can generalise & make statements about other human beings, just to make yourselves feel better, is beyond me!
The sad thing is, its this sort of attitude that makes our borough a nightmare to live in (in some parts). Do something positive - if you can?
Oh dear!

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anon, london says...
3:33pm Tue 25 Mar 08

Despite lenient court sentencing by judges with a) no backbone b) trying to keep the government happy by keeping people out of prison, getting the CPS (Criminal Protection Services) to agree to take a case to court and give it a fighting chance, despite being saddled with ridiculous forms (imagine one copper stopping and speaking to six people during the course of one shift (not searching or arresting). He then has to fill out a form for each one which will take one and a half hours and then he has to input all of that info on the computer which will take another hour or so) incompetent management, an ungrateful public and critical media who will tear you a new bumhole if you show you are human every now and again, not a machine and make a mistake. Despite all this and more please remember that the prison's are full to overcrowding with scumbags so the joe average copper must be doing something right and not sitting in his office eating doughnuts and scratching his balls like everyone seems to think. The reason most people don't see police officers around may be that they are so busy filling out the ridiculous forms to make sure they don't get sued by the same people who complain that they never see a police officer. The reason police officers may lack morale may be because despite walking the beat or driving down a specific road day after day for years and nicking scumbags you then get people coming up to you saying that they have never seen a copper down that road. The reason you might not see one on a friday or saturday night is because they spend so much time dealing with the aftermath of the council issuing licenses to every tom dick and harry that wants to sell alcohol till three or four in the morning to dole scroungers who can't hold their drink and then want to beat the crap out of everyone they meet. When it then takes four or five coppers to nick one of these drunks who always seem to get the strength of ten men when pi**ed don't be surprised when you dial 999 and get an answerphone message because those same coppers are filling out the forms to justify thier actions because a well spirited member of public has complained about all five of them for police brutality despite the fellow getting nicked for glassing someone in the face. When during one shift you nick a robber, burglar or murderer and feel really good about yourself and then you answer another call where you are told that police are rubbish and all of societies misfortunes are your fault and all you are interested in are tickets for motoring offences (which is one form coppers probably couldnt tell you what looked like) then don't be surprised that they get a little miffed. People seem to harp on about the 'good old days' when you saw a copper on every street corner, but they weren't under pressure achieve government targets to make someone look good. Everyone has a mobile phone these days too as well as access to better communications. In the 'good old days' when you had to walk half a mile to the nearest phone box to dial 999 you'd probably find that most people didn't bother. These days the met alone deals in excess of 10.000 calls a day. Anyway, thanks for listening, stay safe and have a nice day.

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JohnDoe, Surrey says...
5:28pm Tue 25 Mar 08

@Patricia,
The very fact that you refer to people in classes attests to why people like you should stay behind your bungalow doors. Christ woman are we not all the same regardless of class. Can a pauper not become a king, is that not the supposed bedrock of this society. Just because you were born with a silver spoon in your oversized cakehole that does not give you the right pass comment on what you call the working class. Others call them the backbone of this country. Perhaps you should find some backbone by trying to muddy your hands for a day in some real work. Good Day.

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Tom Weston, Croydon says...
7:13pm Tue 25 Mar 08

Why does CS Gore imitate a fifth-rate politician, as if we don't have enough already, in blaming newspapers for the rise in fear of violent crime? The sooner we vote in our law enforcement officers, like they do in the US, the sooner we can get rid of PC jobsworth idiots like Gore. Get out and do your job, not arrest those who confront yobs as I read in today's papers!

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North borough, says...
7:46pm Tue 25 Mar 08

Anon, London If any of my comments have led you to believe that I don't feel the police do a good job, I apologise. I do so because this is not how I feel. The thing I do have a problem with is that as you point out police officers do not have the time to be on the streets, with mountains of paperwork. I have never sued anybody and feel human rights should be of benefit to the majority, not just the idiot who objects to being searched when they have given every reason to lead to this course of action.I also have a problem with the employment of PCSO's N.E's etc. They have little if any authority and yet put a strain on finances best spent on real policing. I don't spend my every waking moment in fear but I am aware that crime is a huge problem in Croydon(yes, I know nationwide as well).Your point about the issue of the million licenses(approximate figure!) is something I raised questions about approx. ten years ago. I was told that the issuing of licenses to so many establishments particularly along High St./South End was to keep it all in the one area. Supposedly any trouble could be dealt with more easily if more contained. If you are a serving officer, as your comments seem to imply, just think, someone was trying to make life easy for you!!I have the utmost respect for the police force in this country, I have little respect for the people governing them. I also have little respect for those being employed who I feel belittle what the REAL police do.

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EB, Croydon says...
8:05pm Tue 25 Mar 08

In response to Patricia Dennis' previous comment: you say that you do not want a Borough Commander with a 'shaven head, convered in tattoos etc.' How does somebody's appearance affect their ability to do a job such as this? I, and I assume many other people, would much prefer a Borough Commander with a shaven head if the crime rate in Croydon decreased. Also, you say that the 'average person does not have a very brilliant brain.' I would consider myself to be average; I have grown up in Croydon with my family who are neither poor nor extremely rich and I attend a state school. However, I am predicted A* in all of my 11 GCSEs (which are all in academic subjects such as History and Latin.) I will be taking 5 AS Levels next year, again in academic subjects such as Physics and Maths. Most people take only 3 AS Levels. I plan to attend Cambridge University to study medicine. Many friends of mine, who are all from similar backgrounds, are in similar positions. Therefore, I don't see how you can possibly justify your statement. How somebody applies themself makes more of a difference than their class.

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Bob Peel, Croydon says...
9:48pm Tue 25 Mar 08

North Borough wrote:
Patricia, I think the point Bob was making is that people who have worked their way up to the top, rather than going straight there with a dgree, tend to have a far better idea of the reality of the job. Your snobbery amazes me when these days higher education is encouraged by all. (remember that grocers daughter not so long ago!)If Bob would let me know when he is standing for election I\'ll vote for him as his ideas about life are far more in tune with mine than the jumped up pen-pushers about these days.
Thanks North Borough, your post stopped me from denegrating Patricia. She really hasn't a clue about life. We do need the 'rough and swarthy' in No 10 - they know what its about - far than these current idiots; the majority of whom come from a priveleged background.

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Dr. Hu Flung Dung, Somewhere says...
12:31pm Wed 26 Mar 08

Could I interest you all in a Chinese take-away? It might shut you all up.

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**** Lee Fung, Anywhere says...
7:28pm Wed 26 Mar 08

Now we are getting interesting. Two Chop Sueys please.

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Uncleboko, VIP Lounge Heathrow says...
8:13pm Wed 26 Mar 08

I continue to read complete idiocy from the oiks!

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lob, croydon says...
9:51pm Thu 27 Mar 08

Uncleboko, VIP Lounge Heathrow
my ar5e, i bet uncle bonko's actually queuing at easyjet ;)

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HORATIO HORNBLOWER, who knows? says...
1:53am Fri 28 Mar 08

He wouldn't be seen dead on an Easy Jet flight. I was with him - in the VIP lounge, of course!

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VITHAN RATHATNATNAN, Bangalore says...
1:57am Fri 28 Mar 08

Anyone for an Indian takeaway? Prawn Curry??

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HORATIO HORNBLOWER, who knows? says...
2:00am Fri 28 Mar 08

Ah - something interesting at last. Could I have two Chicken Madras, please??

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MARCELLO MAGGIONE, Rome says...
12:24pm Fri 28 Mar 08

I also do takeaway. Penne al forno, per favore.

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Pierre Le Malheureuse, Paris says...
8:34pm Fri 28 Mar 08

Et moi je will prepare you some Moules Mariniere avec du vin blanc!

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sob, croydon says...
9:24pm Fri 28 Mar 08

He wouldn't be seen dead on an Easy Jet flight. I was with him - in the VIP lounge, of course!
Surely, looking through the glass at those in the VIP lounge. Sobbing.

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HORATIO HORNBLOWER, who knows? says...
12:21am Sat 29 Mar 08

No - inside it. He is a member of Wexas.

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MARIA DE LA PLAZA DE ARIAS MORENO, BUENOS AIRES says...
12:25am Sat 29 Mar 08

Bueno - I can give you a bife (steak) with chips y un buen vino Argentino - any takers????

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Kes, Upper Norwood says...
9:36pm Fri 8 Aug 08

The oldest trick in the game- blame the messenger. The public are not fools, as much as the government would like to paint them as such. I can tell you one thing! I would much rather believe what I read in the newspapers than government statistics and spin. What they read reinforces what they see and hear about out there in the real world.

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Lehan, South Croydon says...
1:26pm Fri 10 Oct 08

If crime was not reported through the media then we would not know about it, left to hear of personal accounts of violent crime from our friends and family, isolated cases within our area. It is through the media that we know of the other cases of violent crime not just in our area, or country but around the world. So yes CS Gore in a way the media is to blame for 'fear of violent crime' because without it we would be ignorant.

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Comments are closed on this article.

Mark Gore has blamed people's fear of law-breaking on media coverage of serious crimes. Mark Gore has blamed people's fear of law-breaking on media coverage of serious crimes.

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