I don't know why so many people insist that prisons are a luxury. Before qualifying as an adult education tutor, I did a project on education in prisons, visiting Wormwood Scrubs, Holloway, Brixton, Wandsworth, Pentonville and one in Woking. I was later offered a job teaching Spanish in Pentonville. None of these institutions seemed at all pleasant to me in terms of what it would be like having to stay there. The loss of one's liberty is punishment itself. Apart from this, I did encounter a few racist officers who were not very nice at all.

Also - what about the numbers of teenage prisoners who have committed suicide when they have been locked up? Feltham comes to mind here.

Yet another ill informed rant by the self proclaimed queen of Selsdon. Please do not comment on things you know nothing about!!!!

I am better qualified than most to write about prisons. I spent several years working in one, as mentioned above. One of my black students didn't turn up for is class for several weeks, and I later found out that an officer would move him in order that the officer on the next shift would not be able to find him to take him to the class. 'Nuff said.

My project on education in prisons earned me very good marks, I can assure you. Perhaps you don't know what "good marks" are. Also - I think spending several years working in a prison does give me a little knowledge - as opposed to your complete lack of it.

I have put a comment in twice and it does not come up. Here it goes again:-
I had very good marks for my project on education in prisons. Also - I worked in one for many years. This tends to suggest that I am well informed, not ill informed and I do know a lot about prisons, having visited many, as part of my project.

I think if someone has visited prisons as part of a project and worked in one, that person almost certainly does know what they are talking about!!!

ANNE GILES wrote:
I don't know why so many people insist that prisons are a luxury. Before qualifying as an adult education tutor, I did a project on education in prisons, visiting Wormwood Scrubs, Holloway, Brixton, Wandsworth, Pentonville and one in Woking. I was later offered a job teaching Spanish in Pentonville. None of these institutions seemed at all pleasant to me in terms of what it would be like having to stay there. The loss of one's liberty is punishment itself. Apart from this, I did encounter a few racist officers who were not very nice at all.

One reason could be the recent statements re cushyness of those completing their sentences? As regards "loss of liberty" what about this government's plans to lock up 'innocent until proven guilty' people for up to 42 days on suspicion? Forget those found guilty because prison is no longer a deterrent!

I'm fed up with all this. If these knife-wielding children (yes! they're still children in the eyes of the law) are so tough, why not ship them out to Iraq to fight and send our troops home instead. Taxpayers won't even need to waste money arming them-they already have the "hardware". Then we'll see how tough they really are!

I prefer to listen to ex-inmates. They say it's cushy and can't wait to get back in. Some even have come up with 'projects' to break back in.

Is Anne Giles one of the few who are able to get comments here??

disgusted wrote:
Yet another ill informed rant by the self proclaimed queen of Selsdon. Please do not comment on things you know nothing about!!!!

Sorry, did you actually have something to say?

As it happens I currently work for the Prison Service and know how things are and what happens. So yes it is not a cushy life in Prison but Ms Giles is a constant source of boring libral drivel on this and the Advertiser. I live in the today and I am completely tired of people not knowing what it is like in todays REAL society, or joining the current fashionable bandwagon to gain browny points. If these kids went to the Scrubs and mixed with the imates as i have done, then they may think twice about wanting to end up there.

C wrote:

disgusted wrote: Yet another ill informed rant by the self proclaimed queen of Selsdon. Please do not comment on things you know nothing about!!!!

Sorry, did you actually have something to say?

Surely not an Anne Giles clone to try and get away with insults without getting blamed???

discusted wrote:

C wrote:

disgusted wrote: Yet another ill informed rant by the self proclaimed queen of Selsdon. Please do not comment on things you know nothing about!!!!

Sorry, did you actually have something to say?

Surely not an Anne Giles clone to try and get away with insults without getting blamed???

Certainly not a clone of anything or anyone.

Was just curious to know if you had an opinion on the matter. That's all.

I quite enjoy reading Anne Giles' comments on here (I don't go on the Advertiser site). I wouldn't say I always agree with her opinion but surely that's what the comments section is for. It would be a boring world if we all agreed on everything.

I apologise if you feel like I was rude, but I'm pretty sure my comment wasn't offencive.

As an 18 yr old, i have a little more insight into the thoughts and mind workings of the younger generation. David cameron and his threats to 'lock up all carying a knife' are empty and hollow. What the adults seem to ignore is that weather or not prision is 'cushy', for many young people it is a fashion statement (think back to the days when everyone, ex con or not, had a borstal spot), or they want to go there for lack of a better place. Yes, i said lack of a better place. So many of these young gang members have no support, often even nowhere to live as scared mothers have kicked them out. If they are in prision, they are less likley to be stabbed. Prision is not the answer as it does not strike the fear into them that it should.

I believe, and it is the view of many of my peers that ANYONE caught carrying an offensive weapon should be conscripted.
Just think, so many of these youngsters have no prospects, support or dicipline, and the many arms of the army can help them to grow and to have a future, a career that seems so far out of reach. And maybe, just maybe the thought of all that hard work might just be a deterrent.

I have started a campaign on facebook, anyone is welcome to join if they agree!
http://www.facebook.

com/group.php?gid=17

906324499&ref=mf

I think it's funny that these so called responsible adults are having a little tiff about who can make comments & whos right & what not.
But it takes an 18yr old to actually make a sensible & valid point on here.
Makes me laugh really. Good on ya girl you got it spot on!!

Carly, if you're on facebook, join the group Chanelle has created. It's so refreshing to hear such wise words from a young adult.


As for having a tiff, you know I'm not one to get dragged into these things but I'm going to reply when people address me. Same as you would (and do hehe :) )

I agree, National Service is a good thing. I wish I had done it as a youngster. I think it gives people a certain amount of self worth that a gang cannot give. It also gives discipline and a career to choose from.(And not to mention a respect for life). Why has it not been re-instated? Anyone know?

I did National Service and never regretted it. But why should the Army be landed with the dregs of society. I'm afraid this country's problems are deep-seated. You can blame our out-of-touch politicians for the mess we're in. Let them stop pontificating, involving us elsewhere, and get to grips here!

The police are doing a good job in the fight against crime. People know who are carrying knives, selling drugs etc, so just report them anyway you can.

I blame the governament for the current knife crime. they are too busy spending money on themselves to care about whats going on. instead of having 2 houses and 2 cars they should be spending money on youth centres and things for youths to do.

when I was younger I was involved in gangs and knife crime. The main reason that people hang aound on streets in the first place is the lack of activities. they need to get the youths off the streets before they form gangs.

the police are also another issue. they alienate themselves from youths. only last week someone i know got beaten up by a couple feds for no reason at all and until the police can root out these bent and racist cops of our streets youths will continue to show complete disregard for them.

I think that Knife crime is a major problem but there is a bigger one that we must all fear and that is guns. i have seen guns and held guns and can say to everyone reading this that guns are becoming increasingly avaliable on the streets here in london. A mac 10 uzi with full clip of 30 bullets costs just £1500, which may be allot of money to some people but not the drug dealers easily making £2000+ a week.

ANNE GILES wrote:
Also - what about the numbers of teenage prisoners who have committed suicide when they have been locked up? Feltham comes to mind here.

ann iam sorry to say but you are wrong in both case,s prison are like hotel there libaty are not even taken away as they allowed open and closed visits.. the youngstres that commit suicde it just save,s our tax payers money to keep them longer and in years to come i have spent the last 4 yrs trying for justice for the men from croyden who shott my daughter at present two are serving in hmp for others crimes but will soon be out and killing again... they just having a rest in hmp

I think all you adults should stop arguing amongst each other,the only people to say the most sensible things here are the 2 teenagers,its great to see the 18yr old girl so in2 changing the Uk knife culture shes creating awareness by making a group on Facebook&I think you should all take notice of what the black 18yr old youth is sayin,hes warning you all&speaking from experience,the governement dont give **** abt kids,ther needs to be things for them to do,im not old,im 25yrs old&can see frm the kids perspectives but knifes&guns is Not the right way,They need to be punished,i ggree Prison isnt the answear,yeah they should be shipped of to Iraq,taught a lesson&SEE THE REALITY OF WAR,FIGHTING,GUNS,KI
LLINGS

P.S.-i wrote the governement dont give a "d..a..m..n" and it blocked the word out,wats the National Service,wen u had 2 serve in the army or something

I myself relocated from South East London, From Near Woolwich,im now on the outskirts in Middlesex,Im so glad i left few months ago cos in last 2mths all the murders we hear about on the news are happening in SOUTH EAST LONDON,London is becoming disgraceful,well this country is,Action needs to be taken now! ! ! !

Chanelle age 18 wrote:
As an 18 yr old, i have a little more insight into the thoughts and mind workings of the younger generation. David cameron and his threats to 'lock up all carying a knife' are empty and hollow. What the adults seem to ignore is that weather or not prision is 'cushy', for many young people it is a fashion statement (think back to the days when everyone, ex con or not, had a borstal spot), or they want to go there for lack of a better place. Yes, i said lack of a better place. So many of these young gang members have no support, often even nowhere to live as scared mothers have kicked them out. If they are in prision, they are less likley to be stabbed. Prision is not the answer as it does not strike the fear into them that it should. I believe, and it is the view of many of my peers that ANYONE caught carrying an offensive weapon should be conscripted. Just think, so many of these youngsters have no prospects, support or dicipline, and the many arms of the army can help them to grow and to have a future, a career that seems so far out of reach. And maybe, just maybe the thought of all that hard work might just be a deterrent. I have started a campaign on facebook, anyone is welcome to join if they agree! http://www.facebook. com/group.php?gid=17 906324499&ref=mf

I agree with most of your comments but also agree with cameron, in that anyone carrying an offensive weapon, like the incident with the thugs that killed shakilus, should go to jail. No one should be carrying a weapon its as simple as that.

Your comment is like saying anyone that commits a serious crime should not go to jail but instead to military service. If someone I know got killed by some mindless thug I would be very unhappy to find out that person is now fighting for my country!

C, would I ever argue!! lol.
I know it does get heated in here sometimes just thought that message stuck out between people arguing how good prison life is. I think it depends on the person in there.
As bad as it sounds I know people who have had it rough & have had a life of luxury in there.

ANNE GILES wrote:
I don't know why so many people insist that prisons are a luxury. Before qualifying as an adult education tutor, I did a project on education in prisons, visiting Wormwood Scrubs, Holloway, Brixton, Wandsworth, Pentonville and one in Woking. I was later offered a job teaching Spanish in Pentonville. None of these institutions seemed at all pleasant to me in terms of what it would be like having to stay there. The loss of one's liberty is punishment itself. Apart from this, I did encounter a few racist officers who were not very nice at all.

And how long ago was this? My Godson is in prison for armed robbery, he loves it in there, he shares a room with a good mate, they have a TV and a games console, he's allowed visitors, he has a little job that he gets a small wage for and his words were "I have never been happier". So I think prisons are easy.
Look at that Winehouse fella Blake whatsisname, he has even managed to continue his drug habit inside.
They need to toughen up the prisons, small cells, 1 hour a day to excercise/shower etc. And no visitors.

Concerned Miss wrote:
I myself relocated from South East London, From Near Woolwich,im now on the outskirts in Middlesex,Im so glad i left few months ago cos in last 2mths all the murders we hear about on the news are happening in SOUTH EAST LONDON,London is becoming disgraceful,well this country is,Action needs to be taken now! ! ! !

Come on - all the murders are NOT in South East London. Are you reading quality daily papers, or rags? Many murders have been committed up North.

That's right, Tony. I think a 5 year prison term for carrying a weapon should be mandatory and, yes, we can't have thugs in the army. If we did, then innocent civilians would get killed as well.

Well, I suppose if someone thinks life in prison is luxurious,then their homes must be pretty dreadful. I like a nice large bedroom, with a king size bed, ensuite facilities - i.e. a daily bath and hairwash, hairdryer in the room, laptop with Wi-Fi, buffet breakfast (no overcooked porridge or weak tea/coffee in large mugs), nice espresso, use of mobile 'phone, swimming pool, days off to attend polo matches and days out to buy nice dresses. Lunch and dinner - well, a good roast with all the trimmings, or proper fish baked in the oven with garlic or herbs, fresh summer fruit, nice fruit juices and a glass of good quality wine at the week-end. That would be the only thing that could possibly make prison life bearable. The other thing about being locked up - everyone needs a lover, and one is hardly going to be given one of those!!

please you young people think before you do someting that you might regret right now if you ask those concern with the killing of that young man,if they would handled the situation diferently i gaurantee you, they would yes,why? because they are paying for their mistakes in prison and it aint so nice and cool now some are saying that we need to carry knife/guns to protect ourselves but if everyone put down their weapons would there be a need to carry these murder weapons yes i agree there are some that wont i say until it happens to them but can i just warn you i know it is not cool BUT IF WHEN COMFRONTED WITH VIOLNECE IF YOU CAN WALK AWAY OR RUN, RUN MAN WHY STAND UP and agrue and make situation s worse for yourselves AND BE A DEAD HERO
WHAT IS IT GOING TO PROVE
dontmisunderstand me i am not saying like that guy i know he was running i mean confrontion situation if you can avoid , avoid

love and peace in these trying times

come to Jesus before it is too late
croydon mom

Well, I suppose if someone thinks life in prison is luxurious,then their homes must be pretty dreadful. I like a nice large bedroom, with a king size bed, ensuite facilities - i.e. a daily bath and hairwash, hairdryer in the room, laptop with Wi-Fi, buffet breakfast (no overcooked porridge or weak tea/coffee in large mugs), nice espresso, use of mobile 'phone, swimming pool, days off to attend polo matches and days out to buy nice dresses. Lunch and dinner - well, a good roast with all the trimmings, or proper fish baked in the oven with garlic or herbs, fresh summer fruit, nice fruit juices and a glass of good quality wine at the week-end. That would be the only thing that could possibly make prison life bearable. The other thing about being locked up - everyone needs a lover, and one is hardly going to be given one of those!!

does the word stuck up biatch come to anyones mind.

I have a few choice words of my own. Good greif!

Oops! I forgot - how about a sauna, steam room and jacuzzi, cocktail bar and a maid to clean out one's room. A laundry woman to wash and iron one's clothes. I'll come back to this site when I can think of any other requirements.

The whole point of my comments is - I don;t live like that and nor do my friends. That is what I would call luxury. I am merely pointing out to all those of you who label prisons as luxury accommodation that none of our British prisons have any of those things I have just described. Therefore, they are not luxury hotels. They are prisons. I have friends who live in large houses, medium houses, tiny houses, flats, council flats - and all these people live better than anyone in a prison. That is my point.

I would just like to clarify.. i 100% and whole heartedly believe that anyone who carries out a violent act should be locked up and or if they are not a british citizen, they should be deported.

However, my previous comment is regarding those whom are caught with a knife but are yet to use it for a crime should be conscripted (and not necessaryily into a fighting position - pretty much any job you can think of is used in the army) in order to TEACH DICIPLINE AND RESPECT. Obviously risk assessments would mean some are psychologically unable to go to the army, and those in prision.

I find it so amusing, that the adult population seems to be blinkered as to the extent of the problem. I couldnt even count the number of young boys i know that carry or have carried knives... The amount is probably more than all the prisioners we currently have in jail.
Why spend our taxes looking after them when they can work for their keep!

I have heard of 10 year olds carrying knives... do we lock them up too?

So many people write off these children (YES CHILDREN).. 12..13 years of age.
All they really need is support.. dicipline and a feeling that someone cares about them.. outside of their 'family' gang.

Until the politicians actually care about the youth of the community nothing will change.

Old town youth centre is sitting rather lonley and derelict i might ad.

I have worked with young people for a number of years now. I don't consider myself to work with disfunctional youths, but youths with disfunctional parents. This is where most of the problems start. I walk down the road, or am shopping when I here an inappropriately dressed young mother screaming insults and abuse at her children whom she has let run wild for half an hour unchastised before, requesting, no sorry demanding, they come to her. It's disgusting, the language and behaviour of adults, what chance do the children have. young people need role models. this means guidance on how to behave, not putting down and belittling. if they are not shown respect and age appropriate behaviours they will behave as they see. why does a four year old know how to swear or threaten, because it has seen it in the home or while watching "the babysitter" by this I mean TV. Parents need to take responsibility for what they instill into their children. then it seems when children start school, some parents feel they don't have to educate their kids anymore cos thats the schools job. I remember seeing primary school aged friends of my children roaming about in school uniform until 9pm without having had any supper. this shows the child no one cares what the are doing, who they are with or where thet are, so of course the child grows up on the streets with a street family. it's almost dickension.
It isn't solely the schools responsibility to educate and train. education is lifelong and is a partnership between all parties. this leads me on to the role of the schools in todays society. the schools hands have been partly tied with the Children Act (which I might add many children are aware of and know their rights better than the professionals (it is ilegal to put a child in detention if it doesn't want to go, its basically kidnapping)) but the schools have not helped themselves. they shudder at taking any responsibility for behaviours presented by students who attend the school. My daughter was once attacked in the summer holidays by a nmumber of fellow students and was hospitalised. when I informed the school of the situation they basically said, (without any knowledge of the facts) it was my daughters own fault because she was a highly intelligent person with a superior vocabulary to the bullies, violence was their only recourse. I was so outraged I was no longer able to offer support to the school which my son, a good kid, was still attending. just the other day my son and his friend were waiting for 2 more friends and an older young person who is a known cocain user started making trouble with them. my sons friend and the older boy ended up fighting and the older boy lost 2 teeth. he was so insenced he came back a few days later and tried to run my sons friend over in a car, he got away so they waited outside the school with friends for my son and attacked him. I spoke to the school (which has been in the papers many times of late for the violence dispalyed towards students there)as my son said it had happened infront of the school cameras, after looking at the CCTV they confirmed they had recorded the attack and I received a voicemail from the school saying they had spoken to the boys family (his little brother attends the school) and basically it was my sons own fault as it was a revenge attack for the previos occation when the boy lost 2 teeth. What can you do when the school won't assist or don't care about what doesn't happen on school premisis.
It may seem, but I'm not off topic, it's all linked.
disfunctional parents need parenting lessons or lose children benefits (always helps to hit em where it hurts), schools need to be allowed to disapline unruley kids, but more importanlty reward goods ones. for young people who have had all the support and help who still insist in behaving in such unacceptable ways, yes enlist them and teach them about real hard work and teamwork.
Young people need to stop talking about the respect they deserve. respect needs to be earned. it is earned by behaving in a way that can be respected. and what of their rights? with rights come responsibility. most young people can't even spell it that alone understand what that means

Prision is what you can afford it to be.

If you have money, power etc it is a very different story inside.

I am tracys said daughter, and mentioned school is edenham.. where not too long ago a friend of my brothers was stabbed in the head with a pair of scissors.

So often i find myself pulling young people for their behaviour at outlining my disgust.. and at the same time i see adult after adult turning a blind eye. Just the yesterday i saw a group of about 5 teenagers frollicing on a wheelchair lift. I told them to leave it and its not fair on the users if they break it, and i was told by my father to keep quiet and not cause trouble. I know one day ill probably be one of these victims.. bt i feel it is my social responsibility to stand up and speak out against that which is morally wrong.

Sadly so few others recognise their own social responsibility.

''Come on - all the murders are NOT in South East London. Are you reading quality daily papers, or rags? Many murders have been committed up North''
-Get a Life Woman, You have not got anything better to do than sit around on a computer on the net & just argue with people, why dont you actually try doing something useful to prevent all this crime instead of sitting around in front of your computer woman!
*ANNE GILES*

Miss Tracey Maureen Young - wonderful comment. Everything you have said is so, so true. And, Chanelle, you too. So many adults don't talk to teenagers. I make a point of approaching every single gang I see in my area. Older teenagers, younger ones, I chat to them all. Many adults treat them as though they are all bad. They are not.
I shall ignore the comment from the Hillingdon Miss, as she obviously has no idea how much work I do for the police and the community. I am rarely at my computer, as I am out and about either working, or doing other things. Today is different - I had to sit and wait for British Gas.

None of us know each other, I dont have a clue what you do for a living but it seems to appear your a regular on here, from comments from other people whp state 'A Normal Rant From Anne Giles Of Seldon''. Like anybody cares who was going to come today, just stop the nonsense woman.

Agree with tracy maureen. I noticed this everytime I go out. They seem too busy chattin away on their mobiles to care what their kids are doing.

I was going to say if kids as young as 10 are carrying knives surely the parents are doing a bad job.

As for chanelle other comment, the kids that killed shakilus. What if the police caught up with them first and searched them? should they have gone to jail or military?

And another thing, what if the kids, that get caught with a knife, don't want to go for national service?

I think they are probably too young for National Service, anyway. Not sure at what age people go.

Miss Hillingdon- Just to keep you in the picture - the gas man did come. Today I am meeting a friend for coffee in Croydon. Tomorrow off to Peterborough for the John Clare festival.

ANNE GILES wrote:
I think they are probably too young for National Service, anyway. Not sure at what age people go.

We don't have National Service anymore. The last Seviceman to be drafted was demobbed mid-1964.

Personally, bring the noose back and give these little shites the long drop. They won't be brave with a rope around their necks.

UK PLC can only blame the liberal EU nonsense adopted in the nanny state that is abused by just about every nation on the face of this Earth.

Boot camp??

why does no one understand prison, national service, boot camp or anything else like that just wont work. Its already too late by the time it reaches that point, the crime has been commited and the victim probably dead. the governament needs to target children when there young to get them out of the gnag culture frame of mind.

childeren have nothing to do so they just hang around on streets, they then get into/form gangs and then arm themselves to protect themselves from other gangs.

the governament is too greedy and lazy to do anything serious about this as far as they are concerned the streets are cleaning themselves up. Give the UK 2-5 years and it will be just like america, gangs are starting to associate themselves with colours and some gangs have already associated themselves with either the bloods or the crips. its only going to get worse but jusdging how you adults argue like babies on here i get the impression (along with most other young people) that you guys just dont give a shyte.

We all care, but boredom is no excuse for crime. When we were children and later teenagers, my mother insisted that we had to put in to the home what we got out of it. That meant that we all helped. We laid the table, cleared the table, washed up, dried up, made our beds, swept our floors, darned our socks, polished the furniture and the silver, polished our floors, polished our shoes, went shopping for groceries with a small shopping list. As soon as we started working, we had to contribute to our keep. We were never bored. We didn't get taken out, nor did we have youth clubs, and pop music and TV were banned. We read books. We walked around with our friends (not gangs) - we went swimming. We went to Church or Sunday school. We had no garden - just a patio, but my father put swings and a sandbox there, so we could play in our homes. We invented games. We had puzzles. We played the piano. We sang. Parents nowadays want beautiful gardens, so they kick their children outside. They never expect them to do an